St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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First unread post4684 posts
Come on people, no links, no spam. No reason to be so hasty. That being said, we do get a lot of spam on here, Betsy so please forgive us. This forum should have no shortage of people that would love to rant about the Pros and Cons of STL's airport. Even if for our own entertainment. And while I have a bit of an airport obsession (mostly the chaos of the buildings themselves), I'm not the one to give a proper summary here.
aprice wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:34 pm
Come on people, no links, no spam. No reason to be so hasty. That being said, we do get a lot of spam on here, Betsy so please forgive us. This forum should have no shortage of people that would love to rant about the Pros and Cons of STL's airport. Even if for our own entertainment. And while I have a bit of an airport obsession (mostly the chaos of the buildings themselves), I'm not the one to give a proper summary here.
It's the same troll that had the daughter "Crystal" who was addicted to meth. Same poor grammar and subverted digs. Don't have to post spam to be an a-hole.
Interesting that we don’t have flights to Springfield, Memphis, Louisville or Indianapolis. Maybe too big for Air Choice One and too small for the Southwest.


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Thank you aprice. I do not know why the others was so nasty. I did a search and saw this site i clicked on it because it said urban and I am interested in urban places. I do not know if I will stay now that one ricket002 is being very nasty to me. I saw that the airport use to be busy but now not very busy that is why I was worried they do not have flights to many places. I am happy to see they have flights to the places I like to go.
Betsy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:48 pm
Thank you aprice. I do not know why the others was so nasty. I did a search and saw this site i clicked on it because it said urban and I am interested in urban places. I do not know if I will stay now that one ricket002 is being very nasty to me. I saw that the airport use to be busy but now not very busy that is why I was worried they do not have flights to many places. I am happy to see they have flights to the places I like to go.
Image
ricke002 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Don't have to post spam to be an a-hole.
^ case in point
This is almost certainly a troll... someone who wants to come in and "ask" questions about crime and safety under the guise of not being able to find information anywhere else; merely to try to toss out negative ideas about St. Louis in the process. So they can create an account on UrbanSTL, yet are not capable of googling facts or simple research.

I get that we want to be open to all (and I completely support that), but this account is both walking and talking like a duck.
If you think someone is a troll there is no need to post any sort of response.
wabash wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:43 pm
Interesting that we don’t have flights to Springfield, Memphis, Louisville or Indianapolis. Maybe too big for Air Choice One and too small for the Southwest.
I read an article the other day about the Memphis airport director saying it was close to getting Southwest to add service here recently but then Southwest decided the cities were too close together. I would imagine this would apply to Indy also. We had Louisville in the past (I flew on it about 10 years ago or so), maybe it will get added back as a spoke (like Des Moines) at some point.
The airport posted a new gate layout map (with who leases each one).

WOW isn't listed but will be using E29.
They have Southwest under E40 but there is no jetway, so that is a little interesting.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... n-2018.pdf
aprice wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:54 pm
ricke002 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Don't have to post spam to be an a-hole.
^ case in point
I'll just be over here waiting for this redaction...
jshank83 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:17 pm
wabash wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:43 pm
Interesting that we don’t have flights to Springfield, Memphis, Louisville or Indianapolis. Maybe too big for Air Choice One and too small for the Southwest.
I read an article the other day about the Memphis airport director saying it was close to getting Southwest to add service here recently but then Southwest decided the cities were too close together. I would imagine this would apply to Indy also. We had Louisville in the past (I flew on it about 10 years ago or so), maybe it will get added back as a spoke (like Des Moines) at some point.
I can remember the days when Delta still had its Memphis hub and was able to get a flight home from Mobile AL MOB to STL via Memphis and the puddle jumpers for a while
jshank83 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:04 pm
The airport posted a new gate layout map (with who leases each one).

WOW isn't listed but will be using E29.
They have Southwest under E40 but there is no jetway, so that is a little interesting.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... n-2018.pdf
Thanks for that, jshank! I find it really interesting that they're listing the low Ds as city gates and not vacant. I clearly need to take a flight out of C/D and see what's up with that. I thought that was all gated off now. Been WAY too long since I was back that way.
symphonicpoet wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:41 am


Thanks for that, jshank! I find it really interesting that they're listing the low Ds as city gates and not vacant. I clearly need to take a flight out of C/D and see what's up with that. I thought that was all gated off now. Been WAY too long since I was back that way.
Maybe they have it blocked off like C27/28 and only open it up when someone is using it?
When i went through a few days ago I could clearly look down D. Seems to be in a similar state as C27/28 in how its likely only used to deal with overflow related to diversions. All there is blocking D is a sign saying "authorized personnel only". Also seems they use that space as to store equipment to be used to work on ceilings and other maintenance.
What do they mean by "City Gate" ?
mjbais1489 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:08 am
What do they mean by "City Gate" ?
It is just a pay per use gate. No one leases it but it is available to use. Instead of paying a flat fee (lease) to use it for a set amount of time they pay a fee each time they use it.

AA does this with C28.
Reading through the March minutes from the airport commission meeting:

Three Kings opens in May.
May 22-24 Southwest is sending 80 employees from its revenue planning department to tour the St. Louis Area. It has been visiting each of Southwest's top ten cities and makes decisions regarding new routes. Explore St. Louis will be providing the tour.

Wingtips meeting expectations so far.

Sidenote: I watched KC's latest airport update. Southwest had a representative there that mentioned "gate constraints at Midway and even St. Louis". I found that curious since I feel like we have plenty of gates. He did mention later their biggest constraint at airports in general is baggage systems because they "crush them". Maybe that is more of our constraint than gates?
Did you hear about the bed bugs at KCI? This is in the area of the airport that will still remain. That town and airport is gross.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 476933002/
survivor147 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:51 pm
Did you hear about the bed bugs at KCI? This is in the area of the airport that will still remain. That town and airport is gross.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 476933002/
They are getting an entire new terminal so nothing will remain terminal wise. But I don't know what that has to do with the discussion in this thread anyways which is the STL airport.
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:37 pm
Reading through the March minutes from the airport commission meeting:

Wingtips meeting expectations so far.

Sidenote: I watched KC's latest airport update. Southwest had a representative there that mentioned "gate constraints at Midway and even St. Louis". I found that curious since I feel like we have plenty of gates. He did mention later their biggest constraint at airports in general is baggage systems because they "crush them". Maybe that is more of our constraint than gates?
I think the reality is that T2 baggage, curbside and short term parking was all designed for expected use of only the T2 gates themselves. I think Southwest STL expansion has been a pleasant surprise in itself but no one should be surprised if Southwest sees constraints and issues as the expand beyond T2's infrastructure. The idea of remodelling E gates and turning lights on in Concourse D is sufficient enough for Southwest expansion and Lambert' itself in long term is just plain shortsighted.
dredger wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:37 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:37 pm
Reading through the March minutes from the airport commission meeting:

Wingtips meeting expectations so far.

Sidenote: I watched KC's latest airport update. Southwest had a representative there that mentioned "gate constraints at Midway and even St. Louis". I found that curious since I feel like we have plenty of gates. He did mention later their biggest constraint at airports in general is baggage systems because they "crush them". Maybe that is more of our constraint than gates?
I think the reality is that T2 baggage, curbside and short term parking was all designed for expected use of only the T2 gates themselves. I think Southwest STL expansion has been a pleasant surprise in itself but no one should be surprised if Southwest sees constraints and issues as the expand beyond T2's infrastructure. The idea of remodelling E gates and turning lights on in Concourse D is sufficient enough for Southwest expansion and Lambert' itself in long term is just plain shortsighted.
It also doesn't help that the average size and load factors of Southwest planes are noticeably larger than 20 years ago is playing into this. The facilities at several areas in T2 is likely at or above planned capacity in local demand from what it was designed for. Might be something to see is what is the growth in Southwest traffic from 2010 to now.

Also with Concourse D, it was designed to be part of a hub structure in mind with C, not with E so there is likely issues of linking the two as part of a hub structure (which as much as Southwest says otherwise it is). Also D has some space issues that would not allow as many gates as in TWA days due to plane size and amenity needs are different now.
imperialmog wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:44 pm
Might be something to see is what is the growth in Southwest traffic from 2010 to now.
There was decent sized jump from 2009 to 2010 so I did 2009 to 2017

2009 total: 4,142,269
2017 total: 8,302,216 (doesn't include Cancun flights but there would have only been 10 or so)

Basically, it has doubled since 2009.
dredger wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:37 pm
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:37 pm
Reading through the March minutes from the airport commission meeting:

Wingtips meeting expectations so far.

Sidenote: I watched KC's latest airport update. Southwest had a representative there that mentioned "gate constraints at Midway and even St. Louis". I found that curious since I feel like we have plenty of gates. He did mention later their biggest constraint at airports in general is baggage systems because they "crush them". Maybe that is more of our constraint than gates?
I think the reality is that T2 baggage, curbside and short term parking was all designed for expected use of only the T2 gates themselves. I think Southwest STL expansion has been a pleasant surprise in itself but no one should be surprised if Southwest sees constraints and issues as the expand beyond T2's infrastructure. The idea of remodelling E gates and turning lights on in Concourse D is sufficient enough for Southwest expansion and Lambert' itself in long term is just plain shortsighted.
Lambert had a plan. Move WN to C and AA to E. Plenty of space for expansion and plenty of baggage claims. WN told them to take a hike. Lambert looked to the future - it was WN that didn't
^ I can't argue against that plan for which I think is pretty good because you could easily have international flights return to C I believe & be able to bulldoze part of D and in its place add a consolidated car rental/more short term parking as well as a single metrolink airport station in between T1 & T2. That could all be done for a fraction of the cost of a new Terminal, what both KC and Pittsburgh are going to do and what New Orleans is already doing across from its existing Terminal. The plan also sets up for a single linear concourse for T1 in future years IMO and also gives the unique opportunity to add a hotel onto T1..

What I would add though, An argument can be made is Lambert needs WN more then WN needs them. So when your largest airline driving most of your revenues for the foreseeable future tells you that they don't like that idea you either have to try harder or at least put forth another plan. Does it suck for Lambert to be in that position? yes,