Metro Safety

All the ways we move people and things: trains, planes, automobiles, biking, walking, etc.
First unread post319 posts
Bi-state was at the FP-D station this morning handing out flyers for the change. I am interested to see what they are going to do with the station considering there is usually somebody at the entrance checking tickets already
Well, this just happened: https://www.kmov.com/news/shot-at-delma ... 7c5d0.html

If I were to guess, it had something to do with a dispute between two or more (probably youngish, black, male) people. That seems to be the pattern. Same situation at the Brentwood and Grand shootings, and probably elsewhere in the city. Not a transit-specific issue necessarily, but it sure doesn't look good for Metro.
From the article:

"I hate this station, I don't like coming to this station. Why? Because they all congregate here. This is the place to be and hangout and now I know why, they just like to shoot at each other," said the witness.

Yep. EVERYBODY knows this and sees the problem. And yet the authorities don't have the political balls to actually DO something about it. Meanwhile, ridership continues to decline.
framer wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:37 pm
From the article:

"I hate this station, I don't like coming to this station. Why? Because they all congregate here. This is the place to be and hangout and now I know why, they just like to shoot at each other," said the witness.

Yep. EVERYBODY knows this and sees the problem. And yet the authorities don't have the political balls to actually DO something about it. Meanwhile, ridership continues to decline.
Pretty sure the area near it is some sort of open air drug market based on my experience. Happens across Des Peres from the station.

I use this station from time to time to see shows on the Loop, and at around the same time as when this shooting happened too. Visit some friends in Skinker Debaliviere outside of commuter hours using it as well. Stuff like this happening is scary, and definitely deters people from using it to do things like I do. Which in turn decreases ridership, which ends up as a positive feedback loop where it'll get more dangerous unless actual security is amped up.

Not asking for fancy turnstiles or anything but I at least want a decent security/police presence to make people safe and prevent stuff like this from happening.
Yep, everyone knows Delmar is awful and nobody does anything. That bus stop "across the street" might as well be at the Metrolink Station, as there's only one entrance and you don't have much of an option to avoid it when coming or going from Metrolink.

I've taken to either avoiding the Delmar Loop or walking down to a Blue Line Station along FP Parkway.

The last few times I was at Delmar:

Leaving a concert late, three teens crowding the stairwells so I had to walk within inches of them, no security to be seen.

Leaving on a Saturday night, watching some guy punch and break the glass schedule case, which caused a police officer to show up, but not actually arrest anyone. He was quick enough that he must've been sitting nearby in his car accomplishing nothing, as they frequently are when they're "patrolling" Metro stations.
What about the substation at 5977 Delmar?
eee123 wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:35 pm
...
Leaving on a Saturday night, watching some guy punch and break the glass schedule case, which caused a police officer to show up, but not actually arrest anyone. He was quick enough that he must've been sitting nearby in his car accomplishing nothing, as they frequently are when they're "patrolling" Metro stations.
Out of curiosity - was it a police officer (city/county PD), or a Metro transit TSO/red badge officer?
Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html
quincunx wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 pm
Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html
Sounds like another product of regional fragmentation.
quincunx wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 pm
Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html
Security is bad and Metro and police aren't cooperating, so reduce funds for security as a solution? Someone please help me understand this logic. Is this the most concrete thing St. Louis County Council can come up with?
moltingcicada wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:16 pm
quincunx wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 pm
Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html
Security is bad and Metro and police aren't cooperating, so reduce funds for security as a solution? Someone please help me understand this logic. Is this the most concrete thing St. Louis County Council can come up with?
I think (and I could be totally wrong) that they are using this as a way to force a change of they way things are being policed on/around the metro. I don't think they really have any intention of not funding it, but if they threaten to pull funds maybe it can force everyone to re-evaluate things and find better solutions. If this provides a change for the better, than I am open to seeing what happens (provided they don't actually defund it).
While I see County police on the Metrolink about daily (I ride during rush hour - five-ish) I rarely see any patrols while in the city limits.

I find that while it's nice to see the patrols, they are kind of a waste during peak hours as it's mostly packed with people commuting. The most that I ever witness is an occasional passenger without a ticket, but nothing scarier than that.

Perhaps if they were to pay more attention/patrol more during the off-peak evening times?
jeffrk wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:57 am
While I see County police on the Metrolink about daily (I ride during rush hour - five-ish) I rarely see any patrols while in the city limits.

I find that while it's nice to see the patrols, they are kind of a waste during peak hours as it's mostly packed with people commuting. The most that I ever witness is an occasional passenger without a ticket, but nothing scarier than that.

Perhaps if they were to pay more attention/patrol more during the off-peak evening times?
This is spot on. The second-best improvement (beyond more manpower/cops doing what they're paid for) would be to focus on times and areas when crimes happen.

Even the metro PSOs squander dozens of man hours per week watching cards fans use the train outside games. They can't possibly justify focusing on whether Joe cards fan validated his ticket when people are getting shot and robbed.

The Metrolink is so, so different after hours
It goes from quiet and respectful to loud conversations about guns, drugs, and such.
Exactly. Metro largely policies itself during peak periods but for a truly successful system people need to feel comfortable riding it for everyday trips outside of commuting. While I don't have a problem using Metro to run errands, go to dinner, or as a sober ride to bars, convincing my girlfriend to use it is a different story. She (and many others in her demographic) is under the impression that Metrolink goes into a state of lawlessness outside of peak periods. I can't honestly tell her she is wrong.

Something big needs to change. I was watching The Handmaids Tale last night and there was a scene where the main character was riding the train in Boston. The train car they were riding in had three different guards holding automatic weapons just chilling, and I jokingly said that I wished they would do something similar with Metrolink. Clearly we don't need three men with sub-machine guns on each train but how hard would it be to have an officer in each train and an officer at each station at all times?

The only clear solution I can think of is the creation of a separate Metrolink specific police department. I know this is forbidden by the original charter but an amendment would clearly win massive public support. Right now I get the impression that cops assigned to Metrolink duty view it as a punishment of sorts and do not take it seriously while the hired guards have next to no actual jurisdiction. A dedicated police force could change everything and bring accountability back to the policing of Metrolink.
I've asked this qursdtion numerous times over the years. How many stations to have one deputized, well paid officer on each platform? At least? STL County says they have 44 officers assigned to it. How many stations? 20 some odd? How is this so difficult to f***ing figure out between three police departments of officers? How are they all still scratching their heads?

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.
bwcrow1s wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:13 pm

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.
I am pretty sure it is only 2 cars though. An officer could just randomly switch back and forth at stations.
jshank83 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:27 pm
bwcrow1s wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:13 pm

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.
I am pretty sure it is only 2 cars though. An officer could just randomly switch back and forth at stations.
Yes, just two cars, and they move back and forth already.

Jeff
An idea that I'm sure has come up in the past is closing certain stations during non-peak hours. This could allow Metro to employ the same number of guards while increasing late night frequency without hiring new operators.

For example (based on my loose knowledge of ridership #s and essential bus transfers) after 8 or 9pm we could close UMSL North, Wellston, Sunnen, Forsyth, Big Bend, Cortex, Union Station, Stadium (unless there is a game), Lacledes Landing on the Missouri side.

I'm almost never in favor of reduced service, so I know this isn't ideal, but the system isn't in an ideal situation right now. This is just a larger form of access control. In other words, a holding pattern until larger long term solutions can be brought forward.
addxb2 wrote: An idea that I'm sure has come up in the past is closing certain stations during non-peak hours.
I don't think that's ever come up before.