St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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jshank83
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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:03 pm

Chalupas54 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:17 pm
imperialmog wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:34 am
^ also helps is that they are in 757 range lowering risk and any hubs not in the NE corridor is a backtrack.


One note with Lufthansa, is could recent corporate acquisitions of local companies by German companies be a factor? Since it could result in increase in business traffic and also could create cargo needs that a flight could also fulfill, since cargo can be something that tips the scales in viability.
This exactly. I will say, even though my uncle was on board and it wasn't here for a good reason, it looked good having a Condor 763 on the tarmac. I wonder what incentives PIT pitched to get Condor.
I know PIT paid WOW 800k over 2 years for their route. I imagine Condor would be higher. I can't find their number though.


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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by Chalupas54 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:46 am

Not sure if we've done it for the airport yet, but I'll put out my 2017 predictions/hopes for the airport, with these either happening or being announced by years end:

1. The airport will break 14.5 million passengers, could even approach 15 if we continue to see record growth.

2. Southwest will only take two of the 4 reopened gates in D, with JetBlue taking the other two.

3. "The Club" franchise will open in concourse D.

4. With JetBlue entering, DAL and/or AA could challenge them with Boston/JFK.

5. Allegiant announces move to STL from BLV, calling for B to be reopened (pie in the sky)

6. SWA resumes Louisville, adds Charlotte, Jacksonville, Cancun and maybe another Caribbean destination.

7. Frontier will again recycle routes.

8. No Europe route.

9. The airport sees a minor pull back from Southwest in terms of frequency, but I don't think we will fall below 100.

10. Landing fees will fall, but still remains sky high.


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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:45 pm

^not a bad list.

Only a ones I would adjust

2. I don't think anyone but southwest will be in T2. IF JetBlue comes I think they will be in C.

5. Never going to happen anytime soon. Midamerica is putting money into new jetways and parking since they are adding flights.

8. I can't see this since they are adding gates. You don't add gates and then decrease flights. So far, through October scheduling they are above last year in every month for month vs 2016.

All the rest I think are decent predictions. #6 probably is a little optimistic (specific) but I can't discount them adding a couple new routes. Cancun I think has to happen soon.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by Trololzilla » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 pm

Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:46 am
5. Allegiant announces move to STL from BLV, calling for B to be reopened (pie in the sky)
As jshank said, I doubt they'll move anytime soon (and likely never, given Allegiant's preference for secondary airports combined with the high landing fees at STL). Also don't know why they'd open B for them, as it would take a lot of work and money (and I'm sure the airport makes a decent amount of money from using B as an event hall anyway). Plus there's plenty of C gates that I'm sure could be pressed back into active service fairly easily.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by JAL007 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:06 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:56 pm
Chalupas54 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:46 am
5. Allegiant announces move to STL from BLV, calling for B to be reopened (pie in the sky)
As jshank said, I doubt they'll move anytime soon (and likely never, given Allegiant's preference for secondary airports combined with the high landing fees at STL). Also don't know why they'd open B for them, as it would take a lot of work and money (and I'm sure the airport makes a decent amount of money from using B as an event hall anyway). Plus there's plenty of C gates that I'm sure could be pressed back into active service fairly easily.
I thought B was permanently closed and has been repurposed as exhibition and event space. I beleive B was last used by FL (AirTran) until they moved to C in 2010, and then to E to join merger partner WN 18-24 months later. No need to open an additional concourse for any carrier with so many vacant gates.


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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by dredger » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:11 am

Concourse B falls under my bulldoze category (which includes most of the D gates as well as). Have a tough time seeing any use in the near future and how much revenue is it really generating as an event space. Finally, the depressing part of Lambert is they won't let go of the past where it hurts the most in the large number of unutilized gates.

My idealistic thought is one day Concourse A & C become linear with a new single security access point/new immigration & customs space where B stands now. Just to add to it- a hotel tower.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by Chalupas54 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:28 am

dredger wrote:

My idealistic thought is one day Concourse A & C become linear with a new single security access point/new immigration & customs space where B stands now. Just to add to it- a hotel tower.
I think based off of Lambert's construction this is physically impossible.


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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by imperialmog » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:47 am

Also doing any sort of work on terminals would increase landing fees which are finally starting to get under control.

Intresting prediction list, though I think the Southwest drawback a bit is likely at this point going to be a false which at least that's one where false means good. Since the most recent schedule extension would have been when to do it due to fleet issues most pressing, and any reductions are normal seasonal ones.

I wonder how much the added gates in terminal 2 will really be used this year, or if redoing that section is more for whatever in 2018 plus the need for more restaurants and shops now due to increased traffic, especially in people connecting here. The possible new destinations announced by end of the year is more likely than not but not nessecarily those. Since I could see restarting Birmingham and Albuquerque along with starting Cincinatti and Hartford and if slot issue changes restart Orange County.

My guess is at least one of the following three will be announced this year and would be shocked if none happens.
JetBlue starts service in Spring 2018 (Only larger market left unserved in the US is Minneapolis, and would they want to start that a year after Atlanta due to possible Delta retaliation?)
Southwest announces an international destination from here (Most likely one and Cancun, but multiple or something else not completely a surprise)
Some sort of Europe non-stop starting in spring 2018 (most likely BA, especially if their New Orleans route does well with them getting more 787-8 coming in time for next spring which is not replacing old planes)

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:49 pm

February numbers are out.

up 4.1% for the month.

up 4.9% for the year.

Air Cargo up 10% on the year.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/documents ... b_ATAS.pdf

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:57 pm

There also is a bid out to put another Local Restaurant Concept in T2.

It looks like it will be by gate E33. 1468 square feet with the option of 506 square feet of patio space.

At the end of the pdf there is a layout for it. It wasn't where I expected but I think it will be good to have that down there. Fills that bottom section around E29/33 out, especially if you have people going on past it now.

Other tidbits:

Common Use Club at E31 (we already knew about this)

Starbucks Kiosk at E29

Concession development in the vicinity of E36 will be limited to kiosks.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/bid-docum ... d-2017.pdf

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by Chalupas54 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:29 pm

jshank83 wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:57 pm
There also is a bid out to put another Local Restaurant Concept in T2.

It looks like it will be by gate E33. 1468 square feet with the option of 506 square feet of patio space.

At the end of the pdf there is a layout for it. It wasn't where I expected but I think it will be good to have that down there. Fills that bottom section around E29/33 out, especially if you have people going on past it now.

Other tidbits:

Common Use Club at E31 (we already knew about this)

Starbucks Kiosk at E29

Concession development in the vicinity of E36 will be limited to kiosks.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/bid-docum ... d-2017.pdf
I would love to see Pi Pizza in the airport. It's nationally known.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by STLEnginerd » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:15 pm

Local BBQ chain would be cool too if they could pull it off. Can't roll a smoker onto the tarmac though...
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by pdm_ad » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:52 am

^ haha, true. And they seem to inadvertently catch fire quite frequently so that might hinder that type of establishment.

My vote is Gioia's. Great sandwichs fast.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by ricke002 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:43 am

STLEnginerd wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:15 pm
Local BBQ chain would be cool too if they could pull it off. Can't roll a smoker onto the tarmac though...
I just read an article yesterday about the "Best Airport Restaurants" and one of them was a BBQ place that smoked their meats onsite. I just don't remember where it was.

EDIT: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bes ... ref=travel

It was Charlotte

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by robertn42 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:58 am

It should be a Blues City Deli with a schedule of live Blues acts.

Pretty sure I just won...

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by dredger » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:28 pm

Biz Journal reporting that Lambert put in application with Feds to privatize airport. This would certainly add a new twist if approved and City willing to put the airport out to bid. Trying to think of the plus side. My immediate thought is up front payment could help reduce debt load on new runway and therefore landing fees as well as indirectly getting the debt load of the city books for bonding reasons (not sure on the city part or how airport debt is reflected on city books/bond rate). I'm still at a loss why city doesn't see what a joint port authority is worth to the county.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... rport.html

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Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:31 pm

^ sounds like it could be a really good deal. Big money for the city to use as it sees fit.


Last edited by moorlander on Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by dredger » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:59 pm

PD has its article out. Stating more as an application to go forward with study as part of pilot program. Privatizing infrastructure as a means of financing improvements is certainly right up there with the new POTUS admin. So maybe Lambert admin sees this as an opportunity to get in front of the pack for near term opportunities.

I can see where costs/savings might be had on privatization while at the same time those gains go right into financing the franchise payment/profit margins. So don't see where the gain is as far as city goes unless some serious debt relieve is involved and or a private operator gives Lambert an edge in bringing a significant increase in flights/international carrier.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by matguy70 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:13 pm

Construction is moving along on the new E Concourse extension. The new flooring and speed walkways are shaping up nice. Gate E29 will no longer be Southwest at all as it will be in use for only International Arrivals.

Southwest employees have already been told that the new gates in E will become active this summer.

Terminal 2 has also begun construction on a new "STL Visitors store" replacing the one now just west of TSA and across from the Starbucks located near TSA. Next to that same Starbucks is a new Hudson Store under construction. T2 has also added several news/food kiosks in the area of Gates E29-33. Also across from the Chili's locations. In addition, a 3rd Starbucks will be added in the new gate area on the concourse.
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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:14 am

I also noticed in the bid out for the local restaurant in T2 it lists E34 and E38 as Southwest but not E36. That seems a little odd to skip one. I'm a little curious on the setup down there. Two gates could be pretty lonely.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by Trololzilla » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:18 am

JAL007 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:06 pm
I thought B was permanently closed and has been repurposed as exhibition and event space.
Isn't that what I said?

I really hope that instead of privatizing the airport the City and County leaders realize the value of a joint Port Authority. Would probably have most of the same monetary benefits and hopefully serve as an important precursor to increased City/County cooperation.

Any chance the airport will ever add some kind of dedicated pre-security spotting area/lounge?

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by jshank83 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:54 am

Trololzilla wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:18 am
JAL007 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:06 pm
I thought B was permanently closed and has been repurposed as exhibition and event space.
Isn't that what I said?

I really hope that instead of privatizing the airport the City and County leaders realize the value of a joint Port Authority. Would probably have most of the same monetary benefits and hopefully serve as an important precursor to increased City/County cooperation.

Any chance the airport will ever add some kind of dedicated pre-security spotting area/lounge?
I thought they had an area/areas behind the check in counters or off to the side of the top level in T1 that you can look at the airfield. I might be wrong though but I for some reason thought there is or at least used to be. I haven't been up there looking around in a long time.

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by flipz » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:55 am

dredger wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:28 pm
Biz Journal reporting that Lambert put in application with Feds to privatize airport. This would certainly add a new twist if approved and City willing to put the airport out to bid. Trying to think of the plus side. My immediate thought is up front payment could help reduce debt load on new runway and therefore landing fees as well as indirectly getting the debt load of the city books for bonding reasons (not sure on the city part or how airport debt is reflected on city books/bond rate). I'm still at a loss why city doesn't see what a joint port authority is worth to the county.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... rport.html
I'd like to read more about this. I'm not sold on the idea. It says that the city gets 6 mil a year from the airport, so how would that increase 4-10 times (as stated in article) if they own less of the airport?

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by gary kreie » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:05 am

This is one more area where St. Louis needs a regional level authority / government to decide issues that affect all, or at least a lot more, of the stakeholders of the region. We're letting the inner 1/10 of the people of the region make decisions in their interest only, instead of in the interest of the 3 million people who call Lambert their home airport.
St.ay St.range St.louis

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Re: Lambert St. Louis Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

Unread post by imperialmog » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:20 am

Could this possibly be a way to force others hands to push for the regional port authority idea? Also some of the stories I heard on this idea would involve allowing the city to use airport revenue to patch city budget, which seems like a recipe for trouble in underfunding airport needs as a result.

Also I wonder if the runway would have been built if it wasn't under city control but regional one. Mainly that the negative effects were impacted by those not in the city who made the decisions.

Some sort of regional control is what would make the most sense, especially if you also do the same with other transportation infrastructure relating to freight traffic and rivers which could work together on building up logistics facilities in the area.


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