Grand South Grand

Discuss construction activity, major renovations, office projects, streetscape improvements, etc. in South City -- defined by the area south of Interstate 44/55.
Walking down S. Grand I just realized that when Rooster and Jimmy John's open up later this summer, there will be nearly 100% storefront occupancy from Arsenal to Utah. And ruskistl mentioned a Brazilian restaurant opening up across from Café Mochi, too. And a pocket park replacing parking!

Grand South Grand, indeed!
As part of amendment 7 the city has a project to extend the street and sidewalk improvements all the way down to gravois from Utah
There's only a couple more vacancies going all the way down to Gravois. And the Lawrence Group's project at the corner seems to be moving along quickly. Extending the Great Streets stuff down to there might help tie that project a little closer to South Grand's main drag, and could certainly make all the fast food and other auto-centric crap seem less invasive.
nickfindley wrote:
There's only a couple more vacancies going all the way down to Gravois. And the Lawrence Group's project at the corner seems to be moving along quickly. Extending the Great Streets stuff down to there might help tie that project a little closer to South Grand's main drag, and could certainly make all the fast food and other auto-centric crap seem less invasive.


Is it? I just drove by the corner and didn't notice much happening, but I didn't get a great look. Are there any renderings?
All of the windows have been replaced and there's a lot of interior work being done. I'd guess there's a couple dozen workers there every day for the last month or so.
nickfindley wrote:
All of the windows have been replaced and there's a lot of interior work being done. I'd guess there's a couple dozen workers there every day for the last month or so.


Good news then. Thanks. Do you know what the plans for the storefronts are? Are those changing?
Wonder the impact that the international Institute moving from just south of grand and gravois will have on that area. That corner and south of there on grand to Chippewa is really sad, you know it's bad when Burger King, Arby's and McDonald's all left from that small stretch
Good news as the Guerrilla Street Food truck owner plans to take over the old Sekusui spot on the Arsenal corner by this spring with a brick and mortar. I didn't think it would take long for something to go in at that attractive location.

A little candy shop also opened up further down; GSG is better than ever.
^^ & ^ it amazes me how slow progress has been on S. Grand outside of the small stretch between, essentially, Magnolia to the north and Humphrey to the south. i walked around Tower Grove Park yesterday afternoon and it was absolutely bustling. TGS is a very desirable neighborhood, so it just befuddles me that, for example, instead of a new mixed-use building at the corner of Grand and Sydney we're getting a f***ing drive through Starbucks, and the handful of blocks between Humphrey and Gravois get no attention except for the Grand/Gravois intersection itself, which seems to be struggling. A few blocks north the Pelican Building and YMCA sit perpetually empty across the street from brand new condos. Meanwhile SLU sits on acres of empty lots fronting Grand. I don't get it.
^I tend to agree. It is weird how the Loop has bled slowly east, but Grand seems to stay within the Arsenal and Gravois boundary. Maybe occupied building north of Tower Grove park break that development up.

A mixed-use building would've have been great for the Starbucks corner, but I also think Startbucks will probably bring a lot of people around that part of Grand. Yeah its a chain, but people love it. The one on Watson in St. Louis Hills is always busy. I think its popularity may bring some benefit to that corner.
^ yeah, i'm sure a starbucks will do fine there. i just wish it were being built up to the sidewalk. now there's even more "precedent" for greedy, visionless property owners along Grand to build more auto-centric sh*t.
^buy a building; change the perception.
ttricamo wrote:
^buy a building; change the perception.

That's basically the problem in a nutshell, isn't it? Be a wealthy capitalist, or suck it up because nobody cares about you. (Not that you personally were saying this.)
ttricamo wrote:
^buy a building; change the perception.


or we could just implement a city plan and some reasonable zoning like every other city in the world that's worth its salt.
Do you think that having all the streets closed on the east side of the Shaw neighb makes a difference? The major things stick out in my mind that are different between the two areas you're talking about are dead end streets and much larger, single-tenant or single use type buildings, with parking lots- like Tower Grove Manor, ALPS, that engineering firm and the ATT building.
I have noticed that there are a number of city neighborhoods that get "momentum" for a while then sort of plateau or become stagnant (or comfortable with the status quo maybe) somewhat sooner than one might expect. I had a business acquaintance mention something like this about South Grand to me a few years ago, he had been active in the neighborhood in the late 90's and relocated elsewhere in the early 2000's for work, and when he came back a few years later he said he was really surprised the neighborhood hadn't gotten to the next level in terms of development, it was largely the same as when he left.

I would guess generally speaking a lot of that has to do with the overall regional demographics, along with the largely westward focused economic drivers of the region.

Maybe there's just not quite enough new regional growth to really push most emerging or solid neighborhoods to the next level.
^yeah. I know what you mean.
I remember years back watching Grand turn the corner. It was exciting. When I heard Commerce was going to build a new bank, I was pumped, expecting something like a four-story urban design (akin to the Loop project) but was disappointed it was a mailed-in, lackluster, single-level suburban design. I felt they really missed an opportunity to take Grand to the next level.
Since then, I've been kinda ho-hum on the area knowing it's going to stay what it is.
I think Grand South Grand is as grand as its ever been but I would like to see some more build-up... replacement of the single-story retail strip with mixed-use mutli-story, an even taller building on the Commerce site equivalent in height to the Dickman across the street. But I do wonder how residents would respond to such kind of higher-density proposals and also for nearby parcels outside GSG like the Alps/Family Dollar site and old Y.
teddykratch wrote:
Do you think that having all the streets closed on the east side of the Shaw neighb makes a difference? The major things stick out in my mind that are different between the two areas you're talking about are dead end streets and much larger, single-tenant or single use type buildings, with parking lots- like Tower Grove Manor, ALPS, that engineering firm and the ATT building.


i think the problem to the south is that the neighborhood gets rougher the closer you get to Gravois–that and the north side of the Grand/Gravois intersection has been decimated by fast food and gas stations. to the north, though, despite poorer auto connections the blocks on either side of Grand are in pretty good shape. while the intersection of Grand and Sydney isn't the best, i don't see why it would prevent progress from spreading north. i don't know what, other than maybe SLU's land holdings, is preventing more northward progress.
roger wyoming II wrote:
I think Grand South Grand is as grand as its ever been but I would like to see some more build-up... replacement of the single-story retail strip with mixed-use mutli-story, an even taller building on the Commerce site equivalent in height to the Dickman across the street. But I do wonder how residents would respond to such kind of higher-density proposals and also for nearby parcels outside GSG like the Alps/Family Dollar site and old Y.


agreed. while progress has been slow, GSG is more active and pleasant these days than I've ever seen it. lots of people out walking around enjoying the weather the past few days. also agree that the one story strip on the east side of Grand at Grand and Arsenal should eventually be replaced with something larger, but before that happens i'd personally like to see a few other vacancies filled and buildings replaced (Alps/Family Dollar) and rehabbed (Pelican/Y). there's also way to much concrete surrounding Jay's International Foods.
^ I really, really would have like to have been here before the German turnverein burned down at the spot of the Jay parking lot.

btw, I think the Alps may have vacated recently with something else is in the works there.
roger wyoming II wrote:
^ I really, really would have like to have been here before the German turnverein burned down at the spot of the Jay parking lot.

btw, I think the Alps may have vacated recently with something else is in the works there.


yes alps has closed not sure whats in store for it I herd a rumor of trader Joe's but i would believe it when i see it. i hope it is torn down and see something like city walk go up there.
An off shoot of Kroger is going in the Alps space, like an Aldi's. Ruler Foods? I think?
olvidarte wrote:
An off shoot of Kroger is going in the Alps space, like an Aldi's. Ruler Foods? I think?


Looks like that's correct: http://jobs.kroger.com/ruler-foods/job/ ... 240185900/

No chance that will be with a new building then. But hopefully it's a well-run store at least.
^ that's gonna be a small store, as the left half of the building is currently infected by the dollar store virus.