Convention Center: Hopes and Dreams

Downtown construction activity, including hotel projects, major renovations, office projects, streetscape improvements, etc.
^when your city center is 5x that of STL City.....
moorlander wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:50 pm
^when your city center is 5x that of STL City.....
I'm assuming you mean San Antonio city has 5x the population of St. Louis city, because I can assure you San Antonio's core is not 5x the size of St. Louis'. What I will say is that it will be increasingly hard for us to compete with metros we are even larger than without some sort of city/county consolidation or regional commission that handles economic development, sports, public facilities, etc. because it's becoming clearer to me that St. Louis is falling further and further behind as the years continue.
goat314 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:10 pm
moorlander wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:50 pm
^when your city center is 5x that of STL City.....
I'm assuming you mean San Antonio city has 5x the population of St. Louis city, because I can assure you San Antonio's core is not 5x the size of St. Louis'. What I will say is that it will be increasingly hard for us to compete with metros we are even larger than without some sort of city/county consolidation or regional commission that handles economic development, sports, public facilities, etc. because it's becoming clearer to me that St. Louis is falling further and further behind as the years continue.
I think goat makes a good point and as it relates to CVC is the simple fact that leadership between city and county from my outside perspective can't seem to move forward on securing and removing a private parking garage right smack in the middle of the convention center and therefore the mundane act of expanding ballroom/or even theater presentation space which has been undersized relative to other cities for years but the bread and butter aspect of convention business doesn't go forward.... That speaks volumes to me how politically disjointed things are between the city and county let alone the region.

The plus side, St. Louis with the Arch & downtown that has the hotels and the attractions whether it be the City Museum on one end of Wash Ave, or a game at Busch/a few beers at BPV/Cupples down the street on Broadway, or a night out/short walk to a casino on Laclede's Landing, etc. sets up a great convention town and will continue to be a great convention town if you execute. In terms of execution an expanded and upgraded ballroom and or theater space seems like a no-brainer from my ignorant perspective that be happening already...Upgrading the dome and connecting it better to the convention space only makes it better. Getting more people to the region only helps the County.
gary kreie wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:43 pm
Are all plans for any improvement to the dome itself now dead?
I don't think that necessarily is the case.... I suspect what's going on is the CVC/RSA is still evaluating what they think is a viable plan in our current political/fiscal environment and probably have been in discussion with Stenger and Krewson. If County is not particularly cooperative, I could see holding off on pursuing big plans until a new administration and better conditions are in place.

Also, not a really big deal, but I saw Comptroller Green refinanced some bonds and some of the savings will pay for new convention center seats.
Watching football in the new Georgia stadium, the seat and skybox configuration looks a lot like our dome, especially with the red seats. Major differences - field is lit up very bright - nearly as bright as outdoor daytime. Players even have outdoorlike shadows. They always kept our dome dim. Also, Interesting sideline seating. Looks like maybe SRO zones right behind benches with seated crowd pushed back and up to see over sidelines. Also, I notice hole in roof was closed for this game and the big Saturday game. If you can't open it in September, when can you? Roof holes overrated?

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^The roof in Atlanta isn't quite finished yet; it won't be operable for a few more weeks.
Watching the conference championship games in the new Atlanta Dome, Jerry Dome in Dallas, and Lucas Oil in Indy. All have their lids closed. All have very very bright lights — like daytime whereas our dome always preferred the dim look. Is there no use for our dome for football right in the middle of America?


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gary kreie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:29 pm
Is there no use for our dome for football right in the middle of America?
Marching band competitions.
gary kreie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:29 pm
Is there no use for our dome for football right in the middle of America?
Image

Instead of "greatest show on turf" they could call it "greatest show from the recently birthed".
gary kreie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:29 pm
Watching the conference championship games in the new Atlanta Dome, Jerry Dome in Dallas, and Lucas Oil in Indy. All have their lids closed. All have very very bright lights — like daytime whereas our dome always preferred the dim look. Is there no use for our dome for football right in the middle of America?


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The sports commision is a joke.

We should have an NCAA football kickoff weekend. SEC/Big10/Big12/American/C-USA/MAC. Turn Laclede's Landing into one big host. Concerts and games and almost a spring break vibe. 6+ groups of fans all in town for one weekend.

Could also do a FCS/Div 2 weekend concurrently, some of those programs have very rabid fans that turn up for everything.

Do it again for basketball season. Could even expand it to about 12+ teams, do an opening season tournament. Use Scottrade/Chaifetz if needed.
RuskiSTL wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:28 am
The sports commision is a joke.

We should have an NCAA football kickoff weekend. SEC/Big10/Big12/American/C-USA/MAC. Turn Laclede's Landing into one big host. Concerts and games and almost a spring break vibe. 6+ groups of fans all in town for one weekend.

Could also do a FCS/Div 2 weekend concurrently, some of those programs have very rabid fans that turn up for everything.

Do it again for basketball season. Could even expand it to about 12+ teams, do an opening season tournament. Use Scottrade/Chaifetz if needed.
Why would STL be a host for an "NCAA football kickoff weekend" with those conferences? I would love to see it happen, but not sure what the *why* is.
stlien wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:58 pm
RuskiSTL wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:28 am
The sports commision is a joke.

We should have an NCAA football kickoff weekend. SEC/Big10/Big12/American/C-USA/MAC. Turn Laclede's Landing into one big host. Concerts and games and almost a spring break vibe. 6+ groups of fans all in town for one weekend.

Could also do a FCS/Div 2 weekend concurrently, some of those programs have very rabid fans that turn up for everything.

Do it again for basketball season. Could even expand it to about 12+ teams, do an opening season tournament. Use Scottrade/Chaifetz if needed.
Why would STL be a host for an "NCAA football kickoff weekend" with those conferences? I would love to see it happen, but not sure what the *why* is.
Especially given that they're on the fringe of almost every one of those conferences.
ricke002 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am
stlien wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:58 pm
RuskiSTL wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:28 am
The sports commision is a joke.

We should have an NCAA football kickoff weekend. SEC/Big10/Big12/American/C-USA/MAC. Turn Laclede's Landing into one big host. Concerts and games and almost a spring break vibe. 6+ groups of fans all in town for one weekend.

Could also do a FCS/Div 2 weekend concurrently, some of those programs have very rabid fans that turn up for everything.

Do it again for basketball season. Could even expand it to about 12+ teams, do an opening season tournament. Use Scottrade/Chaifetz if needed.
Why would STL be a host for an "NCAA football kickoff weekend" with those conferences? I would love to see it happen, but not sure what the *why* is.
Especially given that they're on the fringe of almost every one of those conferences.
Being on the fringe is exactly why...makes for a perfect middle point for traveling packs of fans. All that matters for big sports events like this is a big title sponsor and a TV deal. Finding a sponsor/attracting a TV deal, isn't that the type of work the sports commision should be doing?
RuskiSTL wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:11 pm
ricke002 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am

Especially given that they're on the fringe of almost every one of those conferences.
Being on the fringe is exactly why...makes for a perfect middle point for traveling packs of fans. All that matters for big sports events like this is a big title sponsor and a TV deal. Finding a sponsor/attracting a TV deal, isn't that the type of work the sports commision should be doing?
I toyed with that thought process, too. But the two most successful neutral site hosts for early season college football games are Atlanta and Dallas. Atlanta is in the middle of SEC & ACC territory. Dallas is in the middle of BXII and, to a lesser extent, SEC territory. Those two cities are also more in the "football belt" which probably makes the games more successful.
ricke002 wrote:
RuskiSTL wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:11 pm
ricke002 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 am

Especially given that they're on the fringe of almost every one of those conferences.
Being on the fringe is exactly why...makes for a perfect middle point for traveling packs of fans. All that matters for big sports events like this is a big title sponsor and a TV deal. Finding a sponsor/attracting a TV deal, isn't that the type of work the sports commision should be doing?
I toyed with that thought process, too. But the two most successful neutral site hosts for early season college football games are Atlanta and Dallas. Atlanta is in the middle of SEC & ACC territory. Dallas is in the middle of BXII and, to a lesser extent, SEC territory. Those two cities are also more in the "football belt" which probably makes the games more successful.
But STL is the largest football deprived metro of the top 50, after raiders move to LV. Only one in top 50 with no Div 1 college or NFL within 2 hour drive. I think locals as well as multiple of team fans within easy driving range would attend games here.


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gary kreie wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:35 pm
But STL is the largest football deprived metro of the top 50, after raiders move to LV. Only one in top 50 with no Div 1 college or NFL within 2 hour drive. I think locals as well as multiple of team fans within easy driving range would attend games here.
I'm not sure that would make all that much of a difference. If you're the sort to attend a college football game you probably already drive to Columbia or Champagne-Urbana. Or maybe even Iowa. That's not too absurdly far and there might be a few people here who went there. But . . . who the heck else is anyone even going to care? The NFL Cardinals would draw. The Tigers. The Illini. (How do you spell that?) Kansas. But other than that I see either cheap seats or a lot of empty. The Rams couldn't fill the dome. Why would comparatively obscure out of town teams? I don't see it. Just book it for conventions and be done with it. And go watch your college games in college towns. You'll have more fun that way anyway. A game feels like an event in Columbia. Here? Meh. If you're downtown by the stadium. But otherwise you can't even tell. You don't have to be downtown in Columbia. You can tell at the blinking mall. I assume the same is true of most college towns of that size or so that happen to have the (mis/good) fortune of a local Div. I team.

This isn't to say I'd oppose it if you can make it happen. It's just to say I don't see how you sell enough tickets at a price that would make it work. I don't think the size of the market alone is really indicative. Fans are too fickle. Too local. At least around here. In my (anecdotal and thus inadmissible) experience.
^Make no mistake, the ONLY reason the Rams weren't drawing here was due to a YEARS long direct attack on the fan base in StL by an owner hell bent on moving the team. An orchestrated prolonged campaign against StL citizens designed to drive the team and the city's fans into the ground.

The Rams filled the dome throughout their time here when there was a good faith effort to put a product on the field.
^This. STL also had higher TV ratings with the Rams than LA currently does with two NFL teams, meaning that there was always a significant base of people who at least cared enough about the Rams to watch them on TV, even if they didn't go see them in person.
^true but 2% of 1 Million is 5X more than 4% of 100,000 (if I have my math correct)
Valid points all, actually. Hadn't thought about the impact of the rather flagrant antipathy between ownership and fans. And indeed, lower ratings in LA are probably worth more than higher ratings here. (Which . . . is why the ownership moved the team. They want to sell for more than they paid, no doubt.)

Anyway, all of this is a bit off topic. I don't see college football as the answer for the convention center. It'd be nice if we had another game or two, but there are already a lot of bowl games and special events. And it was very much my impression when I worked for a certain division one NCAA program that the preference would be for fewer games at neutral sites, not more. (And this would be doubly true of actual regular season games that count for something. At least some middle management types complained that there were already too many.)

Anyway . . . it couldn't hurt to try. I just don't see it as either likely, or much of a solution. It would never be terribly many days. Maybe a few a year. That's something, mind. But that leaves a lot more to fill. As long as it doesn't cut into convention business it'd be great. If you can make it work. Who knows?
Bob Costas on CTE: “You cannot change the basic nature of the game,” Costas said. “I certainly would not let, if I had an athletically gifted 12- or 13-year-old son, I would not let him play football.”

TV FS1 sportcaster Doug Gottlieb tweeted: "Wanna bet there is no such thing as high school football in 10 years?"

Should St. Louis City be the first city to outlaw tackle football with a plan to phaseout high school tackle football over say a 6 year span? Boost High School Baseball, Soccer, and HS Basketball (already big.) Start steering middle schoolers to one of those other sports? Or transition all tackle football to some form of safe (flag?) football?
gary kreie wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:54 pm
Should St. Louis City be the first city to outlaw tackle football with a plan to phaseout high school tackle football over say a 6 year span? Boost High School Baseball, Soccer, and HS Basketball (already big.) Start steering middle schoolers to one of those other sports? Or transition all tackle football to some form of safe (flag?) football?
I have oddly mixed emotions about this. I'm not particularly a football fan. I am something of a baseball fan. I have acquaintances that play football at a relatively high level. (In one case Div I NCAA at present.) I want them happy, healthy, and safe. I also want them to be able to pursue their passions. I very much suspect football related head injury played into some past life trauma of another related acquaintance.

The curmudgeon in me would love to see the city simply turn its back on football and lead a great baseball revival. Or find a way to grow basketball or soccer. Or even hockey.

The realist in me thinks head injury is a more serious problem and maybe not just limited to football. (Though it does seem likely that a sport where you intentionally hit people with your head might involve more of that than most.)

The traditionalist in me wants to see the things about football (and even boxing) that are beautiful preserved. Somehow. But rendered less permanently injurious.

This is actually a rather complicated problem.

Is it possible that high level football could command the same interest and attention without brain rattling head crashes? It would certainly be a different game, but maybe it would still be an interesting one.