Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

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debaliviere
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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by debaliviere » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:31 am

BTW, Kirkwood asked that Bopp Chapel (east of Kirkwood Rd.), Waterway and Claychester Cleaners (west of Kirkwood Rd.) be removed from the study area. I'm kind of amazed that three successful businesses, two of which have made major investments in their properties over the years, were even included in the first place.
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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by threeonefour » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:42 pm

debaliviere wrote:
juiceinkirkwood wrote:I don't know how anyone could find it difficult to park in downtown Kirkwood, even on the busiest of nights. It really isn't difficult.


At worst, I've had to park in the neighborhood and walk a few blocks. Considering how pleasant Kirkwood is, that's not a bad thing. I think people's expectation levels are totally out of whack - they're shocked when they can't park in a lot adjacent to the business they're visiting.


I agree, gentlemen. I don't venture out of the city for routine stuff very often because it usually isn't necessary. But when I want to go out to eat and take a stroll in the process, I seek out Kirkwood. The proliferation of surface lots is unfortunate, but at least Kirkwood Road and Argonne Street are still mostly intact and retain their charm. As much as I enjoy the city, if I could find a house in Kirkwood that fit my family's budget and space requirements, I'd move in a heartbeat.

I'll never understand our region's obsession with expecting parking adjacent to every shop or restaurant. It's ridiculous.

I am especially curious about the proposed 53,000SF retail space on the SE corner of Manchester and Kirkwood roads. Would that be a single tenant or a strip mall?

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by beer city » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:54 pm

73 million dollar mixed use - north side on Manchester at Lindbergh - or "Kirkwood" Rd for you Kirkwoodians -

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... witterfeed

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by roger wyoming II » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:10 am

^ and CVS and grocery on southern corners. Seems like a lot of nimbyers are voicing their concerns.
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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by dredger » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:58 pm

You read what Novus is proposing and you would desire that in downtown Kirkwood itself, or more of it in downtown Webster Grove or any place within walking distance of Amtrak Station (Kirkwood, Washington, MO & or Alton, IL come to mind) or metrolink station (Manchester Ave in Maplewood also comes to mind)


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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by goat314 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:38 pm

Site plan is atrocious, parking in the front? But wants to be mixed use? Sad!

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by seanmcelligott644 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:13 pm

goat314 wrote:Site plan is atrocious, parking in the front? But wants to be mixed use? Sad!

Not surprised it is in the county after all.

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by beer city » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:34 pm

Something is wrong here - these are the plans -

overall site
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... panies.pdf

CVS
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... rowley.pdf

Grocer
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... erties.pdf

None of them match each other - The CVS actually hugs the corner and looks, well pretty good for a CVS - considering what they made the CWE go through -

Grocer looks crappy in both -

Edit - looks like these might be competing proposals

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by jakektu » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:08 pm

The CVS site plan is better than what is going up down the street in Rock Hill

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by MarkHaversham » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:25 pm

beer city wrote:Something is wrong here - these are the plans -

overall site
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... panies.pdf

CVS
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... rowley.pdf

Grocer
http://www.kirkwoodmo.org/mm/media/Manc ... erties.pdf

None of them match each other - The CVS actually hugs the corner and looks, well pretty good for a CVS - considering what they made the CWE go through -

Grocer looks crappy in both -

Edit - looks like these might be competing proposals

They are in fact competing proposals.

It would be great to get a more urbanist development here, but apparently there's no interest from developers.

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by goat314 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:51 pm

This proposal was D.O.A.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... witterfeed

It will be interesting to see how many of these suburbs fair when the boomers start dying off. It seems like U-City and Clayton are better positioned to attract the changing demographics. Richmond Heights, Brentwood, Maplewood, Kirkwood etc. look to be going in the wrong direction.

Some of you may not realize this but a lot of the northern inner ring suburbs are also doing quite well and remain pretty stable, there are a lot of nice homes/neighborhoods for good value up there and many of these places have good future plans. Specifically Beyond Housing, which works in the Pagedale area are actually doing a good job of putting some progressive plans in motion (mixed use housing, movie theater, Rock Road TOD, form based code etc.) . Natural Bridge near UMSL is also about to get a major face lift and is being planned for mixed use.

To me it seems like a lot of the more wealthier inner ring suburbs are really missing out on a great opportunity to reinvest in themselves.

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by dredger » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:28 am

Goat, couldn't agree more. You can also throw in Shrewsbury in the inner suburb mix. The neighborhood around my house is quietly but surely a demographic changing to retired, fixed income which leads to the we need sales tax revenue to maintain the quality of our services. Right now my mother in law who doesn't have much of an income lives in the house and wouldn't doubt that their is more than a few neighbors with same income range. I suspect a lot of wealth in Richmond Heights, Brentwood, Maplewood is quietly going away as demographics age in neighborhoods not bulldozed for a big box store.

In the mean time, development proposals to add housing around the Shrewsbury metrolink station, improve down and out apartments literally on the other side of the tracks, and or add mix use instead of a expanse of parking a block away at intersection of Watson and Des Peres Blvd are non-existent. Local leadership of the supposedly wealthy inner suburbs are doing little to attract additional residents and more diversified demographics. The county isn't helping matters by pursuing the South County Connector.

Ironically, Clayton and U City are the two inner suburbs that might buck the trend by default if nimbyism doesn't rule the day. First, developers themselves see an opportunity to deliver residential near as per townhouse proposal or in Clayton's business district as per recent residential tower in part to Centene & the law firm shuffle that came about. U City might buck the trend simply by the fact that Wash U has embraced the loop as a place to provide housing instead of trying to bulldozing a Clayton neighborhood

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by Gateway City » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:56 am

I believe suburbs with Metro stations will do okay even as all the millennials flee their County parents' homes for the City and as most of the boomers pass way in the coming decade or so. Yes, these suburban municipalities will have to give themselves facelifts. Facelifts that look sort of...Dense and mixed-use. I hope it's not ten years before Shrewsbury's metro station sees some development similar to, say, the new Loop Living apartments and a college campus, along with a few offices - - or hell, even something like the Streets of St. Charles or Westport. Same with other suburban stations. But this is the direction they need to go. Building a subdivision there isn't going to help much. These Metro stations need to be 24 hour live/work/entertainment destinations. It will help these municipalities' keep on truckin' and will help Metro meet ridership goals.

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by MarkHaversham » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:43 am

With respect to the Kirkwood intersection, what's the answer here? Is it as simple as laying down urbanesque zoning rules, should we be protesting anything with a drive-thru, or basically what should I put in my letter to the councilpersons?

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by roger wyoming II » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:30 am

^ Have the site plans for the CVS and market --- which look like they are going forward -- been submitted?

Although it would be nice to see a better mixed-use development, I guess what is proposed will be an improvement on the pathetic current state of the intersection.

Really, though, the whole of Manchester Rd. could use a Great Streets treatment -- and streetcar line -- from Kirkwood east to downtown.
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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by MarkHaversham » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:35 am

I just found the EW Gateway Manchester form-based codes plan; I wonder how much the submitted plans differ (not that the EW plan applies specifically to Kirkwood).

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by moorlander » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:07 pm

Special taxing district approved. Fresh Thyme market to open on southeast corner

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-a ... touch=true

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by survivor147 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:00 pm

The Kirkwood Plaza Building, slightly east of Kirkwood Rd, is now a pile of rubble. I was surprised to see how fast it came down!

Does anyone know what exactly is going in here, in its place??

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:12 pm

survivor147 wrote:The Kirkwood Plaza Building, slightly east of Kirkwood Rd, is now a pile of rubble. I was surprised to see how fast it came down!

Does anyone know what exactly is going in here, in its place??



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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by kbshapiro » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:21 am

ATT, Treats Unleashed, and Mercy Urgent Care are signed up. Working on a couple restaurants deals to finish off the center. The shops and restaurants will be open in Sep/Oct 2017.

Fresh Thyme will open in January

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by survivor147 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:21 pm

I thought the sign said Fresh Thyme would open this fall?

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Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by moorlander » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:30 pm

The shop n save billboard out front fresh time is epic

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Re: Potential "second downtown" in Kirkwood

Unread post by MarkHaversham » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:12 pm

"organic & free from items!"? Is that a joke?


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