Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
kbshapiro wrote:
You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.


Just because a tenant signs a long term lease does not guarantee success. As an example, look at the Mills mall. Saks Fifth Avenue off 5th closed after only 2 years, and Lucky Strike Lanes didn't even last 6 months. If a retailer is not performing well, they will have no problem with closing up shop and moving on, lease or no lease.

I've also heard that Chesterfield Mall is working on signing some new to market tenants and is trying to make a move towards more upscale stores. Chesterfield Mall can still be successful with these new outlet malls if they get these new to market stores or more upscale store. Consumers who come from out of town to go to the outlet malls will will be likely to stop by Chesterfield Mall to shop at stores that they don't have in there town.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.
^Bingo
I wonder what kind of insurance policies are in place
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.


Good luck with that. Hopefully that doesn't occur until 2493 when St. Louis has sprawled all the way to KC.
kbshapiro wrote:
These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.


Now c'mon, "if ever"?
dweebe wrote:
pat wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If another 500 year flood like 1993 ever hits again and floods the Chesterfield Valley: exactly zero tax dollars should be used to assist/compensate anyone for damages and losses.


Good luck with that. Hopefully that doesn't occur until 2493 when St. Louis has sprawled all the way to KC.


The term is confusing.

According to the FEMA FAQ website, a 100-year flood is defined as:

The term "100-year flood" is misleading. It is not the flood that will occur once every 100 years. Rather, it is the flood elevation that has a 1-percent chance of being equaled or exceeded each year. Thus, the 100-year flood could occur more than once in a relatively short period of time. The 100-year flood, which is the standard used by most Federal and state agencies, is used by the NFIP as the standard for floodplain management and to determine the need for flood insurance. A structure located within a special flood hazard area shown on an NFIP map has a 26 percent chance of suffering flood damage during the term of a 30 year mortgage.

Similar to a 100-year flood, a 500-year flood has a 0.2-percent chance of being equaled or exceeded each year (FEMA, 2009). Information on specific flood zones is available through the FEMA Flood Zones website.
urban_dilettante wrote:
^ it may be leased now but that doesn't mean it can't fail. anyway, Justme123 said that he/she spoke with Chesterfield/West County residents, not "Westfield". there is no lying or misleading going on, just speculative conversation among people who don't seem too excited about these developments.


Right, I have no connection whatsoever to Westfield. My comments were just from small-talk chatting with people who live in the area - basically they cannot believe that anyone thinks two outlet malls are a good idea, and that the further-west location is "way out there" (I know. The irony.) compared to the stuff at Boones Crossing.

OTOH, the western location is closer to the St. Charles County market, so who knows. It is interesting to me that at least one of the tenants (J Crew Factory) has apparently signed on with *both* locations.

It's true that the tenant list for the Taubman location (is that the eastern/Boones Crossing location?) looks pretty darn sparse. The Premium list has more listed, mostly the usuals:
http://www.chesterfield.mo.us/city-projects.html

[Off-topic: How is that open-air shopping place in Lake St. Louis doing? (the Meadows? Von Maur is/was there.) Never been there; never heard anyone say they've been there.]
chesterfieldkid03 wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:
You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.


Just because a tenant signs a long term lease does not guarantee success. As an example, look at the Mills mall. Saks Fifth Avenue off 5th closed after only 2 years, and Lucky Strike Lanes didn't even last 6 months. If a retailer is not performing well, they will have no problem with closing up shop and moving on, lease or no lease.

I've also heard that Chesterfield Mall is working on signing some new to market tenants and is trying to make a move towards more upscale stores. Chesterfield Mall can still be successful with these new outlet malls if they get these new to market stores or more upscale store. Consumers who come from out of town to go to the outlet malls will will be likely to stop by Chesterfield Mall to shop at stores that they don't have in there town.



All good points. I just think the probability of a high end outlet mall succeeding in Chesterfield is much great than a pieced together half mall/ half outlet mall in the middle of nowhere in Hazelwood.

And yes, I've heard as well that Chesterfield Mall is pursuing some unique retailers. Hopefully it works out. Chesterfield Mall sits on great real estate, so long term, I think things will get better there.
Alex Ihnen wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:
These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.


Now c'mon, "if ever"?


Ok, your right "if ever" was a bit overkill. I think it will be a long time before the Simon Premium Outlet Mall could fail considering the location of the property and the great tenant lineup.
justme123 wrote:
urban_dilettante wrote:
^ it may be leased now but that doesn't mean it can't fail. anyway, Justme123 said that he/she spoke with Chesterfield/West County residents, not "Westfield". there is no lying or misleading going on, just speculative conversation among people who don't seem too excited about these developments.


Right, I have no connection whatsoever to Westfield. My comments were just from small-talk chatting with people who live in the area - basically they cannot believe that anyone thinks two outlet malls are a good idea, and that the further-west location is "way out there" (I know. The irony.) compared to the stuff at Boones Crossing.

OTOH, the western location is closer to the St. Charles County market, so who knows. It is interesting to me that at least one of the tenants (J Crew Factory) has apparently signed on with *both* locations.

It's true that the tenant list for the Taubman location (is that the eastern/Boones Crossing location?) looks pretty darn sparse. The Premium list has more listed, mostly the usuals:
http://www.chesterfield.mo.us/city-projects.html

[Off-topic: How is that open-air shopping place in Lake St. Louis doing? (the Meadows? Von Maur is/was there.) Never been there; never heard anyone say they've been there.]


Yeah, sorry I misread your original post. I agree with you, two outlet malls should not have been built. The reason Simon has beaten Taubman is simply due to tenant relationships and leverage using their other great outlet malls in other parts of the country in order to get leases done with these tenants.

No question, the Taubman site at Boone is located closer to more retail such as the mall and Chesterfield Commons. The Simon site has more room for growth and other development (more retail, restaurants, gas/convenience store, office, etc) while the other site is land locked. Long term, the Valley will grow to the West as well. Both sites have merit but both shouldn't have been built.

Meadows - we've heard mixed results. Some tenants are doing well, some are struggling. I think the jury is still out on that development but its leaning towards bad versus good. It may get real bad when the outlet malls open.
kbshapiro wrote:
I just think the probability of a high end outlet mall succeeding in Chesterfield is much great than a pieced together half mall/ half outlet mall in the middle of nowhere in Hazelwood.


Off-topic again (sorry) -
Speaking of Hazelwood / Mills Mall: That witches brew of horrible smells, underground fire, etc going on at the nearby landfill cannot be good for the real estate values in the general vicinity. That situation, plus the opening of the Chesterfield outlet mall(s!), makes me wonder how much longer Cabelas will stay there. Hazelwood has certainly had its share of bad luck.
justme123 wrote:
Off-topic again (sorry) -
Speaking of Hazelwood / Mills Mall: That witches brew of horrible smells, underground fire, etc going on at the nearby landfill cannot be good for the real estate values in the general vicinity. That situation, plus the opening of the Chesterfield outlet mall(s!), makes me wonder how much longer Cabelas will stay there. Hazelwood has certainly had its share of bad luck.


Good question.

I'm still amazed at how quickly the Lucky Strike out there opened and closed.
It costs a lot of money to build a Cabela's so I'd be surprised to see them move so quickly after opening that store. Probably more likely to do a second store in St Louis MSA than just to relocate the existing store. But, you never know. With public subsidy and/or developers that need an anchor/ new major tenants, anything is possible.
I'm headed to the Stige Outlets....


Image
"Taubman Pre" must have been on the other side of the truck
Kavita Kumar does a good write up of potential impacts on the retail scene from the new outlet centers:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... f677d.html

Evidently they'll be relying a lot on tourists.
oh thank goodness that area will never ever ever flood again!
Checked out Taubman at Boones Crossing exit. Didn't seem to have anything you couldn't find at the Galleria, West County, or even Chesterfield Mall. Maybe a few stores unique to the region.

I just don't get it.
Randy wrote:
Checked out Taubman at Boones Crossing exit. Didn't seem to have anything you couldn't find at the Galleria, West County, or even Chesterfield Mall. Maybe a few stores unique to the region.

I just don't get it.


I don't think you understand what an outlet mall is. Take all of the products in those stores, discount them 30-70%, and you have an outlet store.
Chalupas54 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Checked out Taubman at Boones Crossing exit. Didn't seem to have anything you couldn't find at the Galleria, West County, or even Chesterfield Mall. Maybe a few stores unique to the region.

I just don't get it.


I don't think you understand what an outlet mall is. Take all of the products in those stores, discount them 30-70%, and you have an outlet store.


Yep - my wife buys Coach purses from the outlet in Osage Beach. They will be marked down 50% or more from what the same purse costs in the store at the Galleria.
Chalupas54 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Checked out Taubman at Boones Crossing exit. Didn't seem to have anything you couldn't find at the Galleria, West County, or even Chesterfield Mall. Maybe a few stores unique to the region.

I just don't get it.


I don't think you understand what an outlet mall is. Take all of the products in those stores, discount them 30-70%, and you have an outlet store.


Much of it is cheaper for a reason. Much of it cheaper knock off of their full price product or seasonal over runs. And if they have the newest of the new it's not always discounted as much as it appears.
Yeah. I was not impressed by the merchandise or the prices. Gap and Banana Republic both produce separate items for these stores. That's why they often call them "factory stores" instead of outlets. It seems to me like Nordstrom Rack and Marshalls/Ross/TJ Maxx are the real clearance-driven outlet stores.
^ Very true. Originally, outlet stores/malls were used to sell seconds such as blemished, out of season and returned items. But the supply of this merchandise could not keep up with the demand and number of stores, so they created cheaper "official" knock off products to fill the stores and generate sales.

My wife worked at Crate and Barrel and they closed outlet stores to avoid doing this and diluting their brand. Now they only have a couple of outlet stores that sell true seconds.
While visiting STL this weekend, I went to both outlet malls. There is a ~CLEAR~ difference. Premium Outlets is much nicer, and has a great feel. The other, well seeing the store "CHRISTMAS IN ST LOUIS" as a highlighted store nearly made me poop my pants. I have only seen that store as a mall kiosk. Taubman however has PRIME real-estate, which will benefit it greatly. I don't see either closing in the long term future, contrary to what most say. I think all the shopping will benefit each center, resulting in a huge shopping mecca.
^ Hitting the outlet malls while in town? Your young urbanist streed cred is taking a hit! (Just kiddin!)