Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
south compton
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by south compton » Tue May 29, 2012 1:59 pm

rbeedee wrote:That's surprising to me, that the city would have so little control over its tax policy. Is that something specific to Chesterfield, or is it more general than that?


Community Improvement Districts (CIDs) are separate legal entities from the City. CID sales tax revenues go directly to the CID and bypass the City. I think a lot of cities view it as a business plan issue for the developer (i.e., it's the developer's call if they want to tax their customers at a higher rate than other businesses in the City).

Frankly, I think people should not worry about the CID, be thankful no TIF was involved, and start worrying about the physical impact that a development like this could have.


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Alex Ihnen
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Tue May 29, 2012 4:29 pm

^ But TIFs and CIDs have the same effect on consumers and residents.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by south compton » Tue May 29, 2012 5:03 pm

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ But TIFs and CIDs have the same effect on consumers and residents.


CIDs add sales taxes for people who choose to shop at a specific shopping center.

TIFs redirect sales and property taxes that would otherwise go to the benefit of the entire county, school district, fire district, city, etc.

Maybe CIDs are just the lesser of two evils, but I think its disingenuous to say they have the same effect.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by dredger » Tue May 29, 2012 6:05 pm

^ or you can look at it this way

As a consumer you prefer a TIF because the Sales tax isn't increasing on what your buying

As a resident you prefer a CID as your community doesn't lose out on any new tax revenues to support local services, schools and so on.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed May 30, 2012 9:57 am

As residents of the region, both CIDs and TIF give your money to developers. The TIF allows a developer to keep some portion of say, a 9% sales tax. A CID may increase sales tax to 10%, with the marginal increase kept by a development. They're not identical, but they are the same in that both take money from residents and give to devs/biz for retail development. One can say that a CID only effects those who choose to shop at a specific development, but the reality is that if a Walmart, and outlet mall, or whatever have a CID and the next similar/same story is 10min away, well...consumers really don't have a choice.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Worse, the competing center is looking to form a Transportation Development District: Outlet mall duel still undecided as both sides vow to build

The idea of a transportation district to develop a greenfield seems absurd to me.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:30 pm

Two outlet malls might be built: Chesterfield may get two malls as rival developers refuse to budge
Two rival outlet mall developers are now betting that Chesterfield, already rich with retail, can indeed support both proposed malls, with about 200 stores between them, co-existing just a few miles apart.

That marks a change in the trajectory of the ongoing mall war between Taubman Centers and Simon Property Group, with the assumption up until recently being that only one would be built.

Yet analysts and industry observers have reacted to the prospect of these dueling outlet malls so close to one another with skepticism, noting that the malls would cut into the sales of the other.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by roger wyoming II » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:29 pm

Drove by today and amazing how fast these things are going up.... facade treatments are starting to go up on the one across from the Boone's Crossing strip. A year ago at this time I thought the notion of both of these opening in 2013 crazy, but it is becoming reality.
Last edited by roger wyoming II on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by downtown2007 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:30 pm

UGH

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by hebeter » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:33 am

it's not "high end" but put a staples there

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by vpr611 » Thu May 02, 2013 3:55 pm

I think this is setting up for a massive failure.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/378572/3/New-development-a-possibility-near-Chesterfield-outlet-malls-


CHESTERFIELD, Mo. (KSDK) - A developer who sold the land being used for a new outlet mall in Chesterfield is using the surrounding lands for his own commercial project.

Dean Wolfe said his plan calls for between 20 and 30 businesses built near the mall. These businesses will not be affiliated with the mall. And while Wolfe declined to name any perspective retailers, he said a movie theater could be a possiblity.

Wolfe said construction could begin on one of the businesses as early as this fall.

The current dueling mall development sees the Prestige Outlet Mall at the east end of Chesterfield Valley, across from the Chesterfield Commons shopping center, and Premium Outlet near the Boone Bridge.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by hebeter » Thu May 02, 2013 6:32 pm

Staples?

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by arch city » Thu May 02, 2013 6:59 pm

vpr611 wrote:I think this is setting up for a massive failure.

How so? Can you elaborate?
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by vpr611 » Fri May 03, 2013 10:35 am

More options are great, however what is currently missing from this area that will not be met with TWO outlet malls. I see this as a waste unless they can attract some signature stores that are missing from the Saint Louis area, which I doubt will happen. It will probably just be more variety of what already exists there.

he said a movie theater could be a possibility.


Why with the Galaxy 14 in the same general area? Maybe if we are lucky we can get a Menards to go along with Home Depot and Lowes too.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Presbyterian » Fri May 03, 2013 10:54 am

I wonder if he's tring to woo Ikea.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rawest1 » Fri May 03, 2013 11:00 am

Presbyterian wrote:I wonder if he's tring to woo Ikea.


The thought had occurred to me, as well.
Let's see what we can do, here.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by dweebe » Fri May 03, 2013 11:48 am

vpr611 wrote:More options are great, however what is currently missing from this area that will not be met with TWO outlet malls. I see this as a waste unless they can attract some signature stores that are missing from the Saint Louis area, which I doubt will happen. It will probably just be more variety of what already exists there.

he said a movie theater could be a possibility.


Why with the Galaxy 14 in the same general area? Maybe if we are lucky we can get a Menards to go along with Home Depot and Lowes too.


Plus the AMC up the hill at Chesterfield Mall.

I still think it's funny that Home Depot and Lowes are pretty much right next to each other.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by urbz » Fri May 03, 2013 8:51 pm

Its capitalism at work. Nothing in the area seems to be failing at this point, something has to give. My bet is on Chesterfield Mall going down first.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by stlhistory » Sat May 04, 2013 12:01 pm

^It's the Hotelling Model of Location (from 1929!) at work, actually. Note that the socially optimal location is elsewhere.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotelling%27s_law

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by justme123 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:06 am



Pretty much every Chesterfield/WestCo resident I've talked to is opposed to building two outlet malls. It still seems strange to me that the residents were/are opposed, the city government claimed to be opposed or at least "concerned about the feasibility" of two outlet malls, yet development went on anyway.

In any case, the consensus among the C'field/WestCo people I've spoken to is that the far-west outlet mall (not the one by Boones Crossing - the other one, which, incidentally, requires more infrastructure work) will fail first, and C'field Mall will decline as well. Shame.

dweebe wrote:I still think it's funny that Home Depot and Lowes are pretty much right next to each other.


That seems to be a HomeDepot/Lowes marketing thing. IIRC the Home Depot and Lowes in Edwardsville actually share a parking lot.

As for the movie theater, I think that's a lot of hot air.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by moorlander » Mon May 06, 2013 9:13 am

How on earth did these both get financing?

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by roger wyoming II » Mon May 06, 2013 9:27 am

urbz wrote:Its capitalism at work. Nothing in the area seems to be failing at this point, something has to give. My bet is on Chesterfield Mall going down first.


Not a bad bet. Perhaps an American Boy is needed there to procreate with American Girl to get more life.

Also, while Chesterfield area seems to remain quite strong, it really is amazing how in the dumps some stretches of Manchester and Watson roads are out in west County. And Saint Charles County as well. Our rubber band expansion is beginning to break us.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by kbshapiro » Mon May 13, 2013 8:20 pm

Justme123 -- The Simon project you're referring to is completely leased (minus 6000 sf being saved for temp tenants that pay a fortune in rent). The other outlet mall is struggling to lease their project and nobody knows what it's going to end up like.
Last edited by kbshapiro on Tue May 14, 2013 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by urban_dilettante » Tue May 14, 2013 12:22 am

^ it may be leased now but that doesn't mean it can't fail. anyway, Justme123 said that he/she spoke with Chesterfield/West County residents, not "Westfield". there is no lying or misleading going on, just speculative conversation among people who don't seem too excited about these developments.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by kbshapiro » Tue May 14, 2013 7:14 am

You're correct. I misread his post. My apologies. These outlet tenants sign long term leases, so it will be a long time, if ever, that the Simon StL Premium Outlet Mall will fail.


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