Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
thedude
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:57 am

That seems to be against their model based on their two locations in Chicago. Plus I would love to see Union Station become a museum or something along the lines to find better in its surroundings.


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Alex Ihnen
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:09 pm

^ What about their location in Atlanta? Just hoping. IMO - we likely have enough museums, don't we? I do wish the Museum of Transportation would move to Union Station. Its current location detracts from its story.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Roger Wyoming » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:37 pm

^ Musuem of Transportation actually is a County Parks program. But then again Dooley is looking to shed some parks, so maybe an imaginative relocation to US could work.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by dredger » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:04 pm

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ What about their location in Atlanta? Just hoping. IMO - we likely have enough museums, don't we? I do wish the Museum of Transportation would move to Union Station. Its current location detracts from its story.


Yes and no, No its location does not detract from its story next to what is considered to be the first train tunnel west of the Mississippi so their is some histroical meaning/context even though the tunnel itself is closed to the public as well as some of the best modern day train watching you will find with the UP's busy line next to it. Yes, site selection way back could have been better

Personally, I think you could argue that the museum should be either on the banks of the Mississippi or Missouri considering that is where transportation history really started for the region. I also think their intention, if it isn't done already, to dig a pond to exihibit the boat is kinda of silly

That being said, too much has been invested in its present location and doubt you will ever ever see it move to Union Station.

Roger Wyoming wrote:^ Musuem of Transportation actually is a County Parks program. But then again Dooley is looking to shed some parks, so maybe an imaginative relocation to US could work.


However, Have to agree with Roger that you might see some new thoughts if the county gives up on it and a non-profit takes over such as moving some of the collection to Union Station or actually suporting a working steam boat. In the long term, I think it would be a better deal if a non-profit took control of it. County simply has no incentive to think regionally.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by dredger » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:09 pm

Got way Off Topic on that one.

Back to retail - Doesn't IKEA build all their stores in the US on a stand alone basis (Big Box next to the busiest freeway in the land with a lots of surface parking parking)? or at least every one I have seen is not part of a greater development. I imagine every developer courts them none the least.


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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by jonkleinow » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:50 pm

I haven't lived in St. Louis since 2006, but whatever happened to St. Louis Mills? Wasn't that supposed to be the destination outlet mall for the area? Last I saw, it was heading downhill rapidly. What makes anyone think that a second outlet mall will succeed when the first one failed?

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:57 pm

There is no guarntee as far a retail. But from what they have been reporting so far this will not be an enclosed mall like every other in St. Louis. It seems like we are picking up on a national trand so I'm sure that will bring interest. Second the location is much more desirable than the Mills (the only arugentment aginst is the flood issue :). Third reason is the fact that they are indicating that this will include more high end stores. Besides 3 or 4 stores the mills has noting unique. All this is based on what the developer is saying since ofcourse there are no tenants lined up or a rendering.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Roger Wyoming » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:24 am

thedude wrote: All this is based on what the developer is saying since ofcourse there are no tenants lined up or a rendering.


This outdoor lifestyle center surely will shower us with all of our consumer dreams at unbeatable prices. We are on the cusp of a new dawn!

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:18 am

^ I started my clock on the transformation of outdoor lifestyle centers into indoor shopping malls a couple years ago.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:50 am

Why the incredible skepticism towards something like this? Are there recent examples of failures of outdoor shopping like this? People in St. Louis are certainly a unique bunch. It's almost like people rather see spaces empty or deteriorate than adding anything that resembles a chain store or restaurant. Majority of the project failures that are discussed on this forum are due to the fact that it never even came of the ground for one reason or another. Be it Ballpark Village, Bottle District, and many, many others. I think there are number of people that welcome this and this constant negativity is a bit silly at times. Maybe people are still perturbed about the China Hub/Aerotropolis failure (I'm on of them). Yes I would love to see development to the Union Station and other places. I would also love to introduce something similar to Aerotropolis to promote economical growth and to make St. Louis relevant again but let's not hate on everything that comes along.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:54 am

? I just think that outdoor lifestyle centers are a retail fad. They may last 20yrs, but there will be a next idea (likely indoor shopping IMO). I don't think that the green field where this is proposed is actually "empty" or "deteriorating". And Chesterfield is going fine without a high-end outlet mall. Just my opinion, of course.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbb » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:03 am

^ Plus, I believe, the general opinion is that the region in general and Chesterfield Valley in particular is already over-retailed. Even if this new development succeeds, will it be at the expense of another mall/strip mall/lifestyle center in the area?

-RBB

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:18 am

Based on what I see when I get a chance to go to Chesterfield and some of my friends that live there this it's a growing community. So does that mean that it can support it? Who knows but we are not talking about CWE or some other places which can't naturally expand. Sure I would rather see a brand new soccer stadium with an expansion team to play in it and than add retail around it like they did in Kansas (they also have the Kansas Speedway) but it doesn't mean it is a failure before it comes out of the gate.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:20 am

Alex Ihnen wrote:? I just think that outdoor lifestyle centers are a retail fad. They may last 20yrs, but there will be a next idea (likely indoor shopping IMO). I don't think that the green field where this is proposed is actually "empty" or "deteriorating". And Chesterfield is going fine without a high-end outlet mall. Just my opinion, of course.


I respect all opinions! I think all this skepticism with the majority of new projects is getting to me :lol:

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Roger Wyoming » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:49 pm

thedude,
Saint Louis is vastly overretailed and this and the talk of Chesterfield Outlets and extensive shopping at Creve Couer Lake adds to the problem. Perhaps the Outlets could make it, but a large percentage of any success likely will be at the expense of existing retailers. Look for more empty storefronts if this comes to pass.

If we have to have another project in WestCo, though, I'd prefer this to the Maryland Hts one. First, it has the potential for greater out-of-region shoppers and Chesterfield Valley has already screwed the pooch on development.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by newstl2020 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:56 pm

Chesterfield is the worst thing to ever happen to St. Louis.

This is a fact. Science says so.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:34 am

To my surprise they voted yes on what I thought was the less likely location.

http://www.stltoday.com/suburban-journa ... ee903.html

http://chesterfield.patch.com/articles/ ... utlet-mall

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by thedude » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:36 am

newstl2020 wrote:Chesterfield is the worst thing to ever happen to St. Louis.

This is a fact. Science says so.


:lol: I assume this is a joke gone bad?

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:59 am

2 developers still competing to build an outlet mall in Chesterfield: P-D article.
Everyone seems to agree that only one outlet mall will be built in Chesterfield.

But exactly which one is anybody’s guess.

Two major developers have been angling for months to build an outlet mall along Highway 40 on sites less than five miles apart.

What effect will this have on other retailers?
Of course, Chesterfield Mall doesn't exactly welcome the prospect of an outlet mall being built so close. A representative of the mall's owner, CBL & Associates, spoke out against one of the developments at a Chesterfield City Council meeting last fall, saying it was unprecedented to have an outlet mall so close to a traditional mall.

But the proponents of both projects counter that there would be little overlap in offerings, and that their malls would be more of a regional draw, attracting tourists and shoppers from the entire metro area and beyond.

"St. Louis is the only Midwest market that doesn't have a true outlet offering," Nicolai Schultz, Taubman's development manager, said while in town last week.

St. Louis Mills is more of a hybrid of traditional and outlet stores, and the outlet mall in Warrenton has fallen on hard times and is now mostly vacant.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:47 am

Keep watching this - both developers are asking for subsidies and Chesterfield is going to give millions to one. Whether it's a TIF or CID or some other mechanism, the subsidizing of suburban retail development continues.
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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Mon May 14, 2012 9:38 pm

Tax support for mall gains despite opposition
About a dozen residents spoke out in opposition Monday night to plans to give tax support to one of two proposed outlet malls here.

At issue is a proposed Community Improvement District for the St. Louis Premium Outlets. The project's developers want to use the mechanism to finance $30 million of their costs through a temporary 1 percent sales tax.

Despite the opposition, the proposal was given tentative approval at the City Council meeting. Final approval is expected May 21.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Wed May 23, 2012 12:32 am

Chesterfield OKs special tax district that would include outlet mall
The Chesterfield City Council voted 6-1 Monday to approve a special-taxing district for a parcel that includes the planned site of an outlet mall.

The special district, called the Chesterfield Blue Valley Community Improvement District, will tack an extra 1 percent tax on sales within the district to fund development costs of the property.

I guess it's better than a TIF, but you would think the city could drive a harder bargain when you have two developers racing for the same prize.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by south compton » Wed May 23, 2012 10:38 am

rbeedee wrote:Chesterfield OKs special tax district that would include outlet mall
The Chesterfield City Council voted 6-1 Monday to approve a special-taxing district for a parcel that includes the planned site of an outlet mall.

The special district, called the Chesterfield Blue Valley Community Improvement District, will tack an extra 1 percent tax on sales within the district to fund development costs of the property.

I guess it's better than a TIF, but you would think the city could drive a harder bargain when you have two developers racing for the same prize.


The City really doesn't have much leverage over this narrow issue. Community Improvement Districts are created upon petition of the property owners and while the City must approve the petition, there's some doubt about whether a City can actually turn down a petition that otherwise meets all of the legal requirements.

I'm sure the other outlet mall proposal will involve a 1% community improvement or transportation development district tax too. Almost all large retail development in Missouri has one.

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by rbeedee » Fri May 25, 2012 1:41 pm

south compton wrote:The City really doesn't have much leverage over this narrow issue. Community Improvement Districts are created upon petition of the property owners and while the City must approve the petition, there's some doubt about whether a City can actually turn down a petition that otherwise meets all of the legal requirements.

That's surprising to me, that the city would have so little control over its tax policy. Is that something specific to Chesterfield, or is it more general than that?

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Re: Hi End Outlet Mall Coming to Chesterfield Valley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Fri May 25, 2012 3:22 pm

^ Clearly this is something that should change.
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