The Delmar Loop: Retail

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
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The Delmar Loop: Retail

Unread post by bt » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:52 am

Source



A BORDER STATE: There are a lot of plans to bring more fast and casual Mexican restaurants to St. Louis, and one of them will squeeze out a University City Loop landmark — Streetside Rec-ords at 6314 Delmar Boulevard.



Hutkin Development Co. has bought the building, and a knowledgeable source says Hutkin plans to partition the building off for three tenants — a Noodles & Co., a Chipotle Mexican Grill and a retail store.




What!??! Streetside Records is going away!



I guess this is more of a response to the article than to this topic. maybe this should be moved.[/url]


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Alex Ihnen
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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:54 am

^ Sounds like they're just moving. When I passed the store the other day I wondered if a record store of that size could survive in the Loop. I guess not. I really just think it's to the point that the location is more valuable than will support the store.

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Unread post by southslider » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:04 am

Transworld Entertainment Corp., which owns the two Streetsides left in the St. Louis area as well as Sam Goody and Suncoast Record stores, is looking for another location in the Loop area.




So check out the East Loop. Streetside would work east of Skinker; imagine walk-ins just generated from Pageant concerts. There is also a vacant auto-care place ripe for redevelopment just inside the city limits on the northwest corner of Eastgate, if desiring a location west of Skinker.



"We are very interested in a University City site and one in Kirkwood," said Chris Arnold of Chipotle. "There is a lot of official permitting required in University City, so it could be early next year, but Kirkwood could be this year."




All the more reason to consider a location within the City of St. Louis on the Delmar Loop.

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Unread post by trent » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:12 am

I think record stores in general are a dying breed. When browsing digital music has become so easy to do online...in fact, I can't remember the last time I bought a CD. I've been to best buy recently, but I only walk by the CDs, I don't even stop to look anymore. The only reason I've even been in Vintage Vinyl lately is to sell DVDs.



Until the music industry figures a way to get me into a record store, they're just gonna fade into oblivion. I'm not putting all that on my buying power, but looking at myself as a pretty frequent music shopper.



Although, part of me does miss going to the record store and browsing music for hours. Something about the smell of those places just made it a little extra cool, with their stacks of music and snobby employees who made you feel as though your taste in music will never be at par with theirs.

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Unread post by dweebe » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:34 am

southslider wrote:
Transworld Entertainment Corp., which owns the two Streetsides left in the St. Louis area as well as Sam Goody and Suncoast Record stores, is looking for another location in the Loop area.




So check out the East Loop. Streetside would work east of Skinker; imagine walk-ins just generated from Pageant concerts. There is also a vacant auto-care place ripe for redevelopment just inside the city limits on the northwest corner of Eastgate, if desiring a location west of Skinker.



"We are very interested in a University City site and one in Kirkwood," said Chris Arnold of Chipotle. "There is a lot of official permitting required in University City, so it could be early next year, but Kirkwood could be this year."




All the more reason to consider a location within the City of St. Louis on the Delmar Loop.




I thought the same thing. Moving Streetside to the on again/off again plaza in the east part of the Loop (between The Pageant and Miss Saigon) would be very good.



BTW: I just went to the U. City Government website to find out what happened at the planning board meeting back on 2/28 concerning the conversion of the Streetside spot. They still don't have the meeting minutes up almost three weeks later. I wanted to see what all the NIMBYs and anti-chain-store people said. I'll keep checking back and post what I find.


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Re: The Loop: Retail

Unread post by migueltejada » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:56 pm

BT wrote:Source



A BORDER STATE: There are a lot of plans to bring more fast and casual Mexican restaurants to St. Louis, and one of them will squeeze out a University City Loop landmark — Streetside Rec-ords at 6314 Delmar Boulevard.



Hutkin Development Co. has bought the building, and a knowledgeable source says Hutkin plans to partition the building off for three tenants — a Noodles & Co., a Chipotle Mexican Grill and a retail store.




What!??! Streetside Records is going away!



I guess this is more of a response to the article than to this topic. maybe this should be moved.[/url]




Does anyone remember when I railed against the loop for having too many national chains? Anyone? Remember how I said that these chains drive up the rent and force single retailers out for bigger national companies? How the loop would quickly devolve into nothing more than a glorified strip mall?? Anyone?



Well it's happening now. Development is good, new businesses is good. National chains in this area is BAD.

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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:49 pm

^ Dude - it's a record store. They are closing everywhere.

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Unread post by chrisindowntown » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:15 am

RFT had a run at this a few weeks back. Streetside independent...not according to this article:

Lew Prince, co-owner of Vintage Vinyl (and RFT opera writer), however, welcomed the new neighbors — or more accurately, welcomed the assumed demise of his longtime nemesis, Streetside Records. “My business is in its death throes because of this store,” he said bluntly. If the commission voted to deny the permit, it would be voting for Streetside’s survival — and thereby condemning Vintage Vinyl to a slow, painful death. The Loop can barely support one record retailer, he explained, let alone two. He added that Streetside isn’t a small business; it’s part of an 800-store chain called Trans World, headquartered in Connecticut.


here's the full link: http://www.riverfronttimes.com/blogs/?p=253



So whom would you rather have stay: Vintage Vinyl or Streetside? Honestly, all of my music memories in the Loop are at VV, not streetside, so the choice is obvious for this guy.

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Unread post by trent » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:38 am

I've been in that Streetside twice. I always went to Vintage.

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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:02 am

Is Streetside a chain? I know there's one in Columbia, KC, etc. I remember a couple in Indiana as well . . .

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Unread post by stlgasm » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:06 am

Streetside began in St. Louis. I believe the store in the Loop is the original. I am not happy to see it go because it was part of my early-'90s memories of The Loop back in the day. It adds a little element of grit to the district. I wonder if the mural will be preserved?
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Unread post by bikinʹ_man » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:08 am

Grover wrote:Is Streetside a chain? I know there's one in Columbia, KC, etc. I remember a couple in Indiana as well . . .




i think you just answered your own question there.
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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:22 am

^ Could just be using the same name?



Anyway, if it's a chain, I don't get the nostalgia. Aren't we all against chain stores in the Loop? Or is it OK if it's an old gritty chain store that we're familiar with?

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Unread post by stellar » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:57 pm

Grover wrote:^ Could just be using the same name?



Anyway, if it's a chain, I don't get the nostalgia. Aren't we all against chain stores in the Loop? Or is it OK if it's an old gritty chain store that we're familiar with?




I believe it's an independent that sold out to Trans World. It's as if Starbucks bought Kaldi's and kept the name but behind the scenes it was run as a Starbucks. Whether it's a chain or not I'd love to see the space filled with an independent store that adds character rather than convenience to the area.

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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:07 pm

Whether it's a chain or not I'd love to see the space filled with an independent store that adds character rather than convenience to the area.




This is the sentiment that I don't quite understand.

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Unread post by jax » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:06 pm

It'd be nice if, instead of some fast food, a good market went into this space. The Loop has enough fast(ish) food. It needs a decent market or two to support the residential density of the area and give them something within walking distance.

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Unread post by innov8ion » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:09 pm

Grover wrote:
Miguel Tejada wrote:Whether it's a chain or not I'd love to see the space filled with an independent store that adds character rather than convenience to the area.


This is the sentiment that I don't quite understand.


Chipotle & Noodles Co. are the tasty/quick/convenient restaurants that people have been raving about. Given the choice, I'd much rather have them than a record store that as mentioned isn't overly relevant anymore.



So only independent stores have character? And only chains offer convenience? What tripe...

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Unread post by jefferson » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:57 pm

I say if a well-known, quality national chain wants to move into the loop, more power to them, it's a sign of the Loop's success. There are a few independent anchors I'd like to see stay in the neighborhood - blueberry hill, Fitz's the Pageant etc. But other than that I see no danger of there being too many chains there. As the Loop retail space matures some of the other neglected old business districts in the city can pick up the independents. It's a natural cycle and tough to stop at any one point in time.

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Unread post by stellar » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Grover wrote:
Whether it's a chain or not I'd love to see the space filled with an independent store that adds character rather than convenience to the area.




This is the sentiment that I don't quite understand.




Grover,

I'm not an extremist. I feel that chains have their place. But why not make the Loop such a high demand, fashionable place that the chains are moving into the nearby areas rather than pushing out interesting places and raising rents.



I just got back from a trip to LA and San Diego. Those cities are passing laws to restrict chains. It's gotten out of hand there. We aren't at that point in St. Louis yet and should plan ahead.



Some ppeople on here seem to get all misty eyed for the Noodles & Co. in their former college town or whatever. I don't get that. I can send you dozens of links as to why smart cities are limiting chains and encouraging independent retail. Independent boutiques are tourist attractions. Chipotle is not a tourist attraction. If you live in the Loop you may want a Chipotle, but it's not necessarily good for St. Louis as a whole. I don't have a problem with Chipotle going into U-City. Why does it have to go in West of Skinker in a very special shopping district for St. Louisans.



Here's a link to a story from today about problems in Portland.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonia ... thispage=1

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Unread post by arch city » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:26 pm

jefferson wrote:I say if a well-known, quality national chain wants to move into the loop, more power to them, it's a sign of the Loop's success. There are a few independent anchors I'd like to see stay in the neighborhood - blueberry hill, Fitz's the Pageant etc. But other than that I see no danger of there being too many chains there. As the Loop retail space matures some of the other neglected old business districts in the city can pick up the independents. It's a natural cycle and tough to stop at any one point in time.




Excellent point. Manchester Strip? Locust St. downtown? Washington near Euclid in the CWE?
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Unread post by jefferson » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:02 pm

stellar wrote:
Grover wrote:
Whether it's a chain or not I'd love to see the space filled with an independent store that adds character rather than convenience to the area.




This is the sentiment that I don't quite understand.




Grover,

I'm not an extremist. I feel that chains have their place. But why not make the Loop such a high demand, fashionable place that the chains are moving into the nearby areas rather than pushing out interesting places and raising rents.



I just got back from a trip to LA and San Diego. Those cities are passing laws to restrict chains. It's gotten out of hand there. We aren't at that point in St. Louis yet and should plan ahead.



Some ppeople on here seem to get all misty eyed for the Noodles & Co. in their former college town or whatever. I don't get that. I can send you dozens of links as to why smart cities are limiting chains and encouraging independent retail. Independent boutiques are tourist attractions. Chipotle is not a tourist attraction. If you live in the Loop you may want a Chipotle, but it's not necessarily good for St. Louis as a whole. I don't have a problem with Chipotle going into U-City. Why does it have to go in West of Skinker in a very special shopping district for St. Louisans.



Here's a link to a story from today about problems in Portland.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonia ... thispage=1




I can sympathize with this point of view, but I don't think Streetside qualifies as an "interesting place" worthy of protection. A Noodles & Co. or similar type restaurant would actually be a welcome addition to the Loop for both residents and tourists. Now if it were replacing Brandt's or Fitz's I'd feel different, but those places are so successful I don't think they're in danger.



The problem with the Portland comparison is that the entire city of Portland is so expensive and has seen such explosive growth that the independents literally have nowhere else to relocate to. I just don't see this as a problem here. I hope if that day ever comes that the city will create some kind of department to work with independent businesses to find a new space for them so they don't have to leave the city altogether like the example you cite above. Some people have already made some good suggestions about Streetside relocating to the eastern end of the loop, thereby expanding the district even further. This to me sounds like the very definition of progress...at least more so than telling Chipotle they can't have a store in the Loop.

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Unread post by stellar » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:19 am

jefferson wrote:I can sympathize with this point of view, but I don't think Streetside qualifies as an "interesting place" worthy of protection. A Noodles & Co. or similar type restaurant would actually be a welcome addition to the Loop for both residents and tourists. Now if it were replacing Brandt's or Fitz's I'd feel different, but those places are so successful I don't think they're in danger.


This is why I think this is a great opportunity for The Loop to improve rather than worsen or even become stale. Replace a lackluster retailer with a more interesting one. Maybe the new place can become the "new" Brandt's or Fitz's. I hardly think a Noodles and Co. can ever become a third place for people. It'll never be more than a convenient place to get Noodles.



jefferson wrote:The problem with the Portland comparison is that the entire city of Portland is so expensive and has seen such explosive growth that the independents literally have nowhere else to relocate to. I just don't see this as a problem here. I hope if that day ever comes that the city will create some kind of department to work with independent businesses to find a new space for them so they don't have to leave the city altogether like the example you cite above.


I have to admit that I used the Portland example because it was timely. It came out today. There are many other examples in other cities. That one was just fresh in my mind. I'll work on getting others.



jefferson wrote:Some people have already made some good suggestions about Streetside relocating to the eastern end of the loop, thereby expanding the district even further. This to me sounds like the very definition of progress...at least more so than telling Chipotle they can't have a store in the Loop.


What I don't understand is why people don't suggest that Noodles and Co. move to the East Loop? That way we expand the Loop to something new and retain the texture of the old.



I appreciate this civil dialogue on the matter. I enjoy this forum for that purpose. =D>

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Unread post by jefferson » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:54 am

stellar wrote:
I have to admit that I used the Portland example because it was timely. It came out today. There are many other examples in other cities. That one was just fresh in my mind. I'll work on getting others.




Sounds good, I'd like to hear of some other examples where the local conditions are closer to St. Louis's.



stellar wrote:What I don't understand is why people don't suggest that Noodles and Co. move to the East Loop? That way we expand the Loop to something new and retain the texture of the old.




Ok, so you can accept a Noodles & Co. in the east Loop. Honestly I wouldn't be against some sort "protection district" in the Loop between maybe Kingsland and Skinker that gave preference to local businesses as long as they offered a comparable quality to the chain. The key word here is "preference", not outlawing chains altogether.

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Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:03 am

^ now those are good ideas. There's plenty of room just east of Skinker for some new chains. It does seem that we should be able to plan ahead a bit and deal better with the cyclical small-local-stores-pushed-out-by-high-rents-move-to-new-locale-make-it-cool-then-get-pushed-out-by-high-rents-again. That said, there's needs to be some reall accomodation for high-rent businesses. The city should really jump on the east loop idea.

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Unread post by trent » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:32 am

Noodles & Co/Chipotle going into the new Loop Center.



Sounds good to me.


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