Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within the City of Clayton, the center of St. Louis County government.
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moorlander
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Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:11 am

There is a new development planned.

Description
Mixed use grocery, restaurant and retail (41ksf)
297 units
7 stories
742 parking spots
85 ft tall
642,000sf

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by framer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:12 pm

This looks like every other new apartment building being built these days. Clayton should demand better materials and design.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by stlgasm » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:51 pm

That rendering looks pretty lame, I have to say. Why not a tower? Let me guess, the NIMBYs shot it down because it would ruin their views.
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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by arch city » Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:57 pm

In St. Louis, most projects just seem to take forever to go from proposal to development. Lots of haggling, griping and minutia in local communities. My guess is that because there are so many municipalities with all kinds of requirements and red-tape, it's just slow to get the ball rolling. Then if you add environmental challenges and other issues - like securing financing or zoning changes - it can build the timetable.

However, there are some some exceptions like 6105 Delmar (Clayco) and The Euclid. They went from proposal to construction fast. I think another fast one was Opus' new project in Clayton.
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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by arch city » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:15 pm

framer wrote:This looks like every other new apartment building being built these days. Clayton should demand better materials and design.

I could be wrong, but this was designed by a firm out of Dallas (5G Studio Collaborative). Chances are the developer requested the design in order to gain approval. The previous apartment design did not seem much different.

But I agree. There needs to be more risk in local design when it comes to new projects. They don't have to be gaudy designs - just more interesting.
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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by whitherSTL » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:26 pm

^like Seattle interesting! There's some really cool dev downtown.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by SouthCityJR » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:30 pm

I predict this proposal has an absolutely 0% chance of happening. No way the NIMBYs will let it go through. Just think of all the traffic! Honestly not sure why a developer would even bother trying in Clayton anymore. The residents there are simply too anti-urban, anti-progress, anti-anything. Maybe (hopefully) this will change in the future and Clayton can turn it around, but not in the current climate.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by dweebe » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:37 pm

SouthCityJR wrote:I predict this proposal has an absolutely 0% chance of happening. No way the NIMBYs will let it go through. Just think of all the traffic! Honestly not sure why a developer would even bother trying in Clayton anymore. The residents there are simply too anti-urban, anti-progress, anti-anything. Maybe (hopefully) this will change in the future and Clayton can turn it around, but not in the current climate.


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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:48 pm

SouthCityJR wrote:I predict this proposal has an absolutely 0% chance of happening. No way the NIMBYs will let it go through. Just think of all the traffic! Honestly not sure why a developer would even bother trying in Clayton anymore. The residents there are simply too anti-urban, anti-progress, anti-anything. Maybe (hopefully) this will change in the future and Clayton can turn it around, but not in the current climate.


I think there is a vocal majority like that but I've been pleasantly surprised at how many people have shown up in support of these new developments in Clayton. And for the record, parking and traffic concerns are part of just about every development anywhere.

Take a look at the new developer. It looks like they specialize in UGLY http://lecesse.com/

The previous developer had this feedback from their design from the ARB so I don't see this development going forward.
2. Enhance the architectural merit as this is a prominent property and southern entrance to Clayton

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by framer » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:05 pm

moorlander wrote:
The previous developer had this feedback from their design from the ARB so I don't see this development going forward.
2. Enhance the architectural merit as this is a prominent property and southern entrance to Clayton


And yet a very similar-looking development (The Vanguard) was approved at the western entrance to Clayton.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:26 pm


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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by Alex Ihnen » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:32 pm

More from nextSTL: https://nextstl.com/2016/08/revised-design-presented-vacant-clayton-hanley-site/

The plan seems to get worse and worse:

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Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by moorlander » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:57 pm

This project is now called Rize at Clayton Road. The development would have 298 units in 411k sq ft, rise 7 floors above 3 floors of underground parking with 763 spaces along with a 30k sq ft grocery and a 10k sq ft restaurant. The developer is selling this as having "architectural distinction creating a landmark entry to the city."
You be the judge



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Looking west on Clayton rd


Image Intersection of Hanley and Clayton

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by framer » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:02 pm

Well, the architecture is pretty basic, but the siting is much better than previous efforts; Clayton Road actually has a street wall!

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by addxb2 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:18 pm

Something I find discouraging about this proposal has nothing to do with the actual proposal.

The closest Metro station (Richmond Heights) is 0.41 miles, but the only pedestrian or cycle access is via Galleria Pkwy making the trip 0.9 miles and to make matters worse it requires being on Brentwood . Fortunately there is Linden Ave off of Clayton Ave. If we could figure up a way to create another platform entrance from the east, coupled with new sidewalks down Linden, they'd cut the pedestrian distance down by half to 0.45 miles.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by quincunx » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:57 pm

"Let's take the train to the Tropicana! Oh"

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by arch city » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:02 pm

Although I like the second proposal best, I like this latest one. It's a good balance and takes a little risk.

I think the design and colors work.

It has a trace of tradition, but it also has a nice little modern edge to it. The "edge" is respectful of Clayton (ie. current but toned-down).

This works in Clayton or in The Loop.
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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by Randy » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:33 pm

Main issue with this proosal remains: Lack of pedestrian consideration and street level retail at the eastern end of the site plan, where most pedestrian flow will be arriving from the northeast corner (Westwood Dr. in the Moorlands).

The entire eastern half of the site plan is a parking garage at street/sidewalk level.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by quincunx » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:19 pm

Is that a long driveway from the parking spots on the west to the entrance off of Clayton?

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by framer » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:25 pm

^I think it's a sidewalk.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by stlhistory » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:53 pm

^It's a driveway. There's a sidewalk that abuts the building, but you can make out the arrow from the parking lot to the garage side showing the direction of traffic flow.

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Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by moorlander » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:15 pm

You can see the opening to the drive here too.


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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by Randy » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:48 pm

^ Okay, that's really silly. I think they are trying to confuse people and make it look like a pedestrian walkway on the site plan. And in the render it's not obvious where the people are walking.

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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by Chalupas54 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:58 am

I like this proposal, although the one with the mid-rise was the best. This is STILL aesthetically pleasing IMO.


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Re: Old Schnucks - Clayton Rd. at Hanley

Unread post by RuskiSTL » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:03 pm

Good urbanism, terrible architecture. Something in this location deserves much more creativity and style! A 20-25 story signature tower on the corner would be ideal, at least as "daring" as Park East. Clayton's high standard of architectural design is quickly slipping.


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