Boulevard Saint Louis I & II

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
First unread post314 posts
This looks great...but the first thing I thought of was how great a development like this would be on 4th street downtown, right next to the Hilton etc. Like replace the Mansion House retail with some of the ideas pictured above.

A little off topic, sorry.

This does look nice....and I would visit a West Elm store at the Boulevard just about any chance I got, good store and we should have one in STL.
trent wrote:
I would be shocked to see an Apple Store in that development. On top of Apple redoing the Galleria store just last year it would seem a bit out of character for them to build something across the street that will still get less foot traffic than the Galleria Mall.

Lately, Apple has been building stand-alone flagship stores or flagship stores that anchor shopping centers.

Here's a good article to read, ""Can Apple Anchor a Shopping Mall? Don't Count on It" and here (FIND: Flagship).
I just finished a 4 year stint with Apple, I don't need such articles to tell me their business models. :P

IF Apple moved out of the Galleria it wouldn't be for probably 3-4 years at best. Both St. Louis stores have received revamps in the last 3 years, and there are other locations around the country that would have a much higher priority than the Galleria store which was built as the largest indoor store in the country (tied actually).

I could see Apple going to a different location in STL before putting something in next to a recently revamped Galleria store.
^ Off-topic: where could you imagine Apple relocating in STL, if they were to do so? Plaza Frontenac? Chesterfield? Downtown St. Louis City?
trent wrote:
I just finished a 4 year stint with Apple, I don't need such articles to tell me their business models. :P

IF Apple moved out of the Galleria it wouldn't be for probably 3-4 years at best. Both St. Louis stores have received revamps in the last 3 years, and there are other locations around the country that would have a much higher priority than the Galleria store which was built as the largest indoor store in the country (tied actually).

I could see Apple going to a different location in STL before putting something in next to a recently revamped Galleria store.

Hold on trent, the links posted were not to prove you wrong. The links were posted to demonstrate and inform those interested that Apple is looking into the "anchor model" for many of their locations. They are popping up all over the place.

Maybe it is too late for The Boulevard II to be anchored by Apple, but retailers move and shift locations all of the time. The Galleria itself has seen major shifting around and rebuilding in recent years.

While it is unlikely that Apple will relocate from the Galleria in the immediate future, it is not far-fetched to believe Apple could consolidate stores in St. Louis into a major anchor store or just relocate a store. Again, Apple anchors are popping up all over the place in the U.S. - in cities that had thriving mall locations.

Also, if the Galleria store was built as the largest (tied, as you say) indoor store, why wouldn't Apple come back to St. Louis after their lease agreement is over (or another developer buys out Apple's lease at the Galleria) to anchor a major new retail development?

While I have never worked for Apple.....anything is possible. :wink:
trent wrote:
I just finished a 4 year stint with Apple, I don't need such articles to tell me their business models. :P




I thought that was you at the Genius Bar at the Galleria. Thanks for getting that repair pushed through at no cost to me.
Alex Ihnen wrote:
^ Off-topic: where could you imagine Apple relocating in STL, if they were to do so? Plaza Frontenac? Chesterfield? Downtown St. Louis City?


I honestly have a hard time imagining Apple going to a three store model for St. Louis at this time. Apple tends to look for places where foot traffic can meet the needs of the store as they get most of their traffic from people shopping the mall still.

One reason I'm skeptical of the idea of an anchor store in St. Louis because of the market itself. The places where Apple is putting anchors are in much larger and thriving metro areas with strong independent traffic. Which is why so many are international at this point. Much of the activity in the states are focused on store remodels rather than stand alone anchors.

IF Apple moved with an Anchor model in STL, I do think the Richmond Heights shopping mecca is the type of area they'd be in. The City just doesn't have enough foot traffic and $$ to support a store right now. Although the Galleria does serve a large portion of Southern IL, which could HELP to make the case for a downtown store. I still don't see it happening.

arch city wrote:
Hold on trent, the links posted were not to prove you wrong. The links were posted to demonstrate and inform those interested that Apple is looking into the "anchor model" for many of their locations. They are popping up all over the place.

Maybe it is too late for The Boulevard II to be anchored by Apple, but retailers move and shift locations all of the time. The Galleria itself has seen major shifting around and rebuilding in recent years.

While it is unlikely that Apple will relocate from the Galleria in the immediate future, it is not far-fetched to believe Apple could consolidate stores in St. Louis into a major anchor store or just relocate a store. Again, Apple anchors are popping up all over the place in the U.S. - in cities that had thriving mall locations.

Also, if the Galleria store was built as the largest (tied, as you say) indoor store, why wouldn't Apple come back to St. Louis after their lease agreement is over (or another developer buys out Apple's lease at the Galleria) to anchor a major new retail development?

While I have never worked for Apple.....anything is possible. :wink:


Some of what I said above answers your post. Apple has a prime location in the Galleria at this time. And just for some background, the store they built and are located in now was a 5 year project in the making. The mini store was something that was quickly outgrown and it still took 5 years before they could open up another store.
moorlander wrote:
trent wrote:
I just finished a 4 year stint with Apple, I don't need such articles to tell me their business models. :P




I thought that was you at the Genius Bar at the Galleria. Thanks for getting that repair pushed through at no cost to me.


np
Wonder if a flagship Apple store would be more possible when the IKEA opens - drawing from a much larger geographical area.
So, what's the deal with Phase II now? Every time I drive past here I wish I were watching them build it already!
$78.9M Boulevard South Project in Richmond Heights Wins TIF Support
http://nextstl.com/2015/11/78-9m-boulev ... 2387083401
It looks like parking is ~50% of the footprint of this project.

And what is with the weird 19 space surface lot? They couldn't justify extending the retail storefronts the entire length of the the street?

In my opinion, use of TIF here is unjustified and exacerbates the oversupply of retail vs. employment and residential.
^,

"The proposed project would include up to 95,000sf of retail and dining space, 30,000sf of office, and 165 residential units."
^ Asked that question over at Nextstl, where is the 165 residential units going? Assume either above retail or above the parking garage. More residential makes sense if they are getting 90% occupancy on current rentals. Which also make for one for one of the few bright spots between Richmond Heights and Shrewsbury metrolink station. Especially the underwhelming Sunnen development to date - proposed apartment surrounded by a moat of new car dealerships and underutilized office park. Think modern suburban version of a castle with a moat or on top of a peak protected from the masses

Otherwise, have to agree with Randy if their is no residential. More TIF for more retail space isn't getting the region ahead and once again demonstrates what needs to be fixed.
I think the residential will be sprinkled throughout the eastern portion similar to phase one.
Here are the renderings from how Phase II was supposed to look when initially proposed.

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Not sure if the residential tower was scrapped for Phase I or II.

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Believe the tower at end was phase III - burger king spot.
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I wonder if the hotel as originally proposed/envisioned for Phase II is now going to be residential? Assume that new renderings would differ with change in direction/scope
Eight stories built right up to the sidewalk? Brentwood may start looking like a real street again!
Proposed what 8 years ago maybe? Already feels dated, more like 20.
I'm not sure I would say the design looks old, but that's a just a matter of opinion. Does anybody know how what the current vacancy rate is in the apartments? I'm guessing its pretty good if they are trying to go forward with the expansion. Just don't understand the need for TIF because I figure something like this would be a very popular option for many St. Louis natives. It's definitely not for everyone, but it provides walkability to man things and is only a few metro stops away from other retail and entertainment options that in Clayton and south Hanley... Being located near a metro stop, the mall, big box stores, and groceries seemed like a no-brainer... along with quick access to a major highway. These types of developments are very popular in the metro DC area where i currently live. Take this place for instance -

http://mosaicdistrict.com/live/

It's kind of in a similar location as the Boulevard, although I would argue the boulevard is in a nicer spot. Fairfax county actually used a TIF to help the developer improve a section of the project. The argument was that nobody would have risked developing that without assistance. BS in my opinion... this development is very successful - $750k+ townhouses sold out rapidly (new section in the works). During summer, the area is packed - that despite being in kind of an oasis among commercial and industrial businesses in this particular section of Fairfax county. the development is anchored by Target, a theater, a Hyatt, an organic grocery, and a lot of mom and pop type stores. Totally walkable and very nice for people who come home and don't want to drive anywhere looking for food/entertainment or basic needs. I would think the Boulevard has the same type of appeal and I hope they are successful.

Here are some other similar developments in the area...

http://livedowntownbrambleton.com/?gclid=CI-Hu9vsuMoCFdUSHwoddfoBUw

http://www.eya.com/montgomery-row/

http://www.oneloudoun.com/

unbelievable what the homes in these communities cost, but people are stepping up to the plate to get them.
Live tweet from tonight's ccm

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Finally some movement - Renderings in the story - looks good, I don't see TIF as a problem on a difficult dense redevelopment like this one

http://www.kmov.com/story/33133629/cont ... m-galleria
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Looks pretty good. Nice massing, anyway.