P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
Mound City
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P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by Mound City » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:58 pm

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... tm_source=[domain]&utm_campaign=/newsletters/breaking-news/new-4-25-13/?wrapper=true&_t=2&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline

No commentary necessary, I don't think. I'll just leave this one right here.


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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by arch city » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:22 pm

I'm sure the folks in MH are going to do what's best for them, but THF Realty is like Cordish to me. They are FOS!

MH should let THF Realty spend loads on proposals/renderings etc. then select another firm from out-of-state.
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by dredger » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:36 pm

^ I don't think anyone is surprised that something was going to be proposed again just as the recession hit in 2006. My concern, please, please don't let this become the focal point for a competing MLS stadium proposal.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by CarexCurator » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:45 pm

David Stokes, the incoming director for the Great Rivers Habitat Alliance, said he thinks it’s “preposterous” that the city would think of allowing such a project in a flood plain and support it with tax money, especially in light of the damage done in parts of the region by flooding in December.


Seriously, we should be removing the levee not building behind it. This is preposterous. That whole land should just be part of the park. It has huge recreational potential as the main connection spot for pretty much every regional greenway. Floods are entirely preventable. We should not just avoid development in flood plains because buildings and soccer fields will be flooded, but more importantly we should avoid it because we need to set aside big areas of the flood plain to slow the river down, prevent floods elsewhere, and filter the water. We need wetlands! We should be building recreational boardwalks there to check out the eagles and herons not pouring subsidized concrete.
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quincunx
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by quincunx » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:22 am

This exemplifies everything wrong with St. Louis development.

Development in floodplains
TIFs in areas that aren't poor
Developer leveraging fragmentation
A fragment not looking at the bigger picture
Low-productivity auto-oriented
The opposite of fine-grained and productive


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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by sirshankalot » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:24 am

^Agreed..so let Maryland Heights have it....

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quincunx
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by quincunx » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:30 am

Forgot wasting tax-payer dollars on a levee to make the land developable when that money could have gone to something and there's plenty of other land next to already built infrastructure to build on.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by dweebe » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:37 am

Meanwhile, like 6 miles away the St. Louis (Mills) Outlet Mall, which was built for $250 million recently sold for $9 million in auction and now the winner decided they don't want the place.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/auction-winner-for-st-louis-outlet-mall-drops-out/article_64b054d6-28e1-5400-8f4e-ea34e86274c6.html

But hey, lets forget that and build more retail in a flood plain.
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wabash
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by wabash » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:38 am

^Good reminder.

On the MH front, it's sad that it seems more likely MH will subsidize another Kroenke flood plain development, than them developing a strategy and putting tax dollars and subsidies toward a Westport Metrolink extension, which in turn would encourage mixed-use development and investment without staggering subsidies and ill-conceived land-uses.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by CarexCurator » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:09 am

The project plan extends pretty close to the West Lake Landfill and the fine city of Champ... it goes around that tiny airport, the water treatment plant and whatever the Maryland Heights Sportsport is.
Image

If this must be, then I hope they can strongly leverage existing and planned regional infrastructure. The Rock Island Trail would wrap around the lake there. The Missouri Greenway and the Centennial Greenway will meet there. If they could strongly engage the park and connect it better to the river, it might not be terrible. Looking at the wasteland around the Family Arena on the opposite bank though isn't encouraging.

This is not the first plan of this type.
Image

See more here: http://www.marylandheightsresidents.com/howard-bend-preservation-creve-coeur-park.html
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quincunx
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by quincunx » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:40 am

Maryland Heights has no property tax. Great for them that they can TIF away the taxes that would go to the schools, fire, ZMD, etc

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH proje

Unread post by dredger » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:11 pm

In the back of my mind trying to comprehend how this development can even close to delivering on all that acreage considering the following:

1 - Clayton CBD is and will be seeing significant development of residential/office and hotel space across the board. What happens if Montgomery bank finally speculates on a tower and the new development expected on the east end that will replace the tri condo proposal.
2 - Cortex/Wexford and CWE in the immediate neighborhoods still seeing growth with everything from apartment being built or proposed from Euclid, to Lindell to N. Sarah to Pershing Ave, Clayco's loop project, to Greenstreet FPSE and yet we are expecting more sooner than later. Not too mention that Koplar/Koman/Clayco deal might come up. Just to add to that you got Lawrence group in Mid-Town as well as taking over the Federal Mogul site
3 - Downtown still has viable opportunities from Chemical, to Railway and to what LHM is doing at Union Station and now some serious discussion on MSL downtown/riverfront stadium. This doesn't include the fact that BPV maybe one day will put up phase II, CVC convention expansion and Drury sitting on Landing property

Now take other competing but smaller St. Louis County developments that will offer space not including the continuing development of Chesterfield valley with space still to go and CC/Dansforth planned expansion/repurpose of Montsana CC campus

1 - LHM Westport redevelopment with WWT anchoring. I doubt LHM will want to stop with WWT
2 - Development at Manchester Ave and I270
3 - Richmond Heights mixed use from Boland Place to Manhassett development & I64/Hanley hotel development, Sunnen development & The Boulevards phase II (I wouldn't be surprise if they find a way for phase III). Throw in the old Schnucks store
4 - Crestwood mall redevelopment plan that got a city TIF hearing this week.
5 - Someone will come up with a plan for the defunct outlet mall & a new home for Blues training
6 - I believe Northwest Plaza can still offer more development
7 - Developments in and around Lambert including North Park and the two parks along the north side, one that overtook Ford old site and Hazelwood Logistics that got new life.

Finally, St. Charles County won't go down without a fight and Fenton is still trying to desperately trying to find a way to develop the old Chrysler site.

In all consideration, hope central corridor from downtown to Clayton CBD and periphery neighborhoods & munis win the day. Just to much stock to rebuild & replace and space to infill for a huge new development on a floodplain to happen.

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quincunx
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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by quincunx » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:16 pm

Road projects like this should be considered a subsidy too. There's plenty of land next to infrastructure that taxpayers have already paid for.

Stltoday - Nixon rejects tiny road project that could help a Kroenke development

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 1384c.html

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by jshank83 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:32 pm

Looks like Maryland Heights is backing off these plans for now.

Probably what I liked the most in it.

“This is not about the next Walmart,” Maryland Heights Community Development Director Wayne Oldroyd said.

Instead, he envisions a regional draw with the type of entertainment and cultural attractions that bring money into the region’s economy instead of moving sales tax dollars from one municipality to the next.


Hopefully, this leads to more of this thinking. I will give them props for actually thinking this through and not building something that doesn't make sense.


http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 816e0.html

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by Ebsy » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:04 am

Regardless of the merits of the project, Stan Kroenke should not get a cent from any government in St. Louis.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by joelo » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 am

Hopefully Maryland Heights is realizing another retail development isn't in the best interests of the region.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by quincunx » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:39 am

No build makes sense. There is tons of land next to already built infrastructure to build on.

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Re: P-D: Kroenke, partner want tax dollars for huge MH project

Unread post by joelo » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:51 am

It's great seeing STLToday comments overall in agreement for once and on the right side of the agreement too lol


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