Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Discuss new retail, dining, business and residential projects within St. Louis County, including Chesterfield, Riverport, Earth City, Westport and more.
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moorlander
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Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Wed May 06, 2015 3:22 pm

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"The development, by Cozad Commercial Real Estate, includes 58 1-bedroom and 174 2-bedroom apartments ranging in rent from $1,000 to $1,600 per month.

Some retail would be involved, and Cozad said a Maserati/Alfa Romeo dealership deal is close. He said some hotels have been interested, but that they want to own the property, and it’s owned by Sunnen, which doesn’t want to sell. There will be no light manufacturing. The development will go next to city council."

Read more here
http://40southnews.com/maplewood-plan-z ... -property/


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Re: Sunburn TOD - Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by roger wyoming II » Wed May 06, 2015 3:27 pm

^ omg, another car dealership in the works!

(btw, that snuggling business article at the website was kind of creepy.)
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Wed May 06, 2015 3:33 pm

Here is the description from the Maplewood P&ZC meeting.

#2015-10 – Review and recommendation of a request by Cozad Commercial Real Estate
Ltd. to approve a planned unit development ordinance, a preliminary development plan
and preliminary subdivision plat (which will rezone to PUD District) for approximately
18.79 acres of land north of Sunnen Drive, west of the MetroLink right-of-way, south of
Sunnen Products and east of Hanley Road

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Wed May 06, 2015 4:09 pm

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Wed May 06, 2015 4:16 pm

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by Ebsy » Wed May 06, 2015 4:24 pm

Okay, but really, Maplewood does not need another car dealership.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dweebe » Wed May 06, 2015 4:50 pm

Okay, I guess.

Still much rather see something happen on both sides of Manchester east of the Metro stop.
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by jstriebel » Wed May 06, 2015 11:46 pm

This is far from perfect, but since it's not happening in the city or the most urban part of Maplewood, I'm not going to fret too much. It's nice to finally see some TOD residential happening there. Or hopefully happening.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dredger » Thu May 07, 2015 12:24 am

It looks like more parking than what is needed for the apartments. Would this be part of a parking agreement with Sunned and Metro, or would it be part another phase of apartment buildings to the north? You can see some vague shapes which I guess is future development.

What gets me after driving through Sunnen business park several weeks ago is that nothing has changed since my wife and I bought a house in Shrewsbury about 11 years ago. The business park is still half empty which I think is modest. Does Sunnen even try to promote its own business park? Does Maplewood even care to bring in some light industrial/jobs?

I can understand you are not going to build the big warehouses there or large industrial facility. But you figured the business park would at least snag a few businesses out of the city who want to be close but want that 1% savings on their payroll, or maybe a business looking for more light industrial space, or even a low wage industrial business knowing that metrolink gives them better option of attracting employees, but nothing. Heck, some mid size office buildings with structured parking would work well. The impression I get is that the Sunnen family has done well with their business, slowly bought up everything around them and did the torch earth routine around castle. Heck, straight out of the SLU playbook without spending money on the fountains and fences.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by wabash » Thu May 07, 2015 5:14 am

Sounds like you kind of answered your own questions: 1) Sunnen business park is a long-term land bank without a great deal of urgency to maximize utility. 2) Perhaps developers don't love the idea of a long term land lease arrangement with The Sunnen family, and would rather (or project better returns) developing property that they've purchased outright.

This project seems like a step in the right direction. Although, as you mentioned, the amount of parking is a bit outrageous.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Thu May 07, 2015 1:15 pm

Maybe some of that parking shown is for Mini and the new Maserati/Alfa Romeo dealership. This will be the 2nd Alfa Romeo dealer in the region and the 3rd Maserati.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by STLEnginerd » Thu May 07, 2015 2:59 pm

as far as car dealerships go a Maserati dealership has got to be fairly compact. Also will probably be completely enclosed. Maplewood could do worse.
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dweebe » Thu May 07, 2015 5:49 pm

1) I'd love nothing better than the Dean Team Volvo of Brentwood to close up and leave Maplewood. (Yes, they say they're in Brentwood when they're actually in Maplewood.)
2) I know a lot of you are still extremely angry about the Mini dealership. But would you want to live right next to a very active rail line? Something retail/office/car was going in that wedge: not residential.
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dredger » Thu May 07, 2015 6:23 pm

^ Dweebe, I'm assuming for item 2 that you are actually referring to the UP freight line not metrolink.

My personal experience is prior to meeting my wife and moving to St Louis is that I owned a townhouse in Lisle, IL (Chicago West Suburb). The townhouse complex was literally next to the BNSF three track Aurora mainline that not only hosted significant amount of BNSF freight trains but also multiple Metra trains. My response would be that you can design and build to buffer against sound intrusions. Second, my neighbors we commuters and I think they appreciate the proximity to the Lisle Metra station more than anything. Especially in winter.

On a different note but along similar lines. I think the small commercial area across from the mini on the other side of Hanley would be a good place for townhomes or mulitfamily. Move the businesses into Sunnen Business Park. Yes, it would be also in a wedge up against the UP train tracks. However, it is on the same side of the street as the great little space ship park (what my boy would call it), a small local tavern/grill as well as easy access to future greenway without ever having to cross Hanley. At the same time, it would be a short walk over to the Sunnen metrolink station.

Which comes back to Maplewood itself. For all the great things you can say about revitalizing the downtown. They are also squandering the opportunity, with both Manchester and Sunnen metrolink stations, to build up residential density, demographics from families to senior living. Maybe they will get past the almighty sales tax mentality.
Last edited by dredger on Thu May 07, 2015 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by wabash » Thu May 07, 2015 6:25 pm

dweebe wrote:But would you want to live right next to a very active rail line? Something retail/office/car was going in that wedge: not residential.


The multi-family mixed-use Lofts at Station Plaza and Station Plaza Apartments in Downtown Kirkwood were built adjacent to those tracks in 2005, and residential neighborhoods line the tracks from Kirkwood to Ellendale. Having residential at that location isn't/wasn't out of the realm of possibilities.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by ajwillikers » Fri May 08, 2015 8:20 am

dweebe wrote:But would you want to live right next to a very active rail line?


"How often does the train go by?"
"So often you won't even notice it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65lJGs7YC8
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by rbb » Fri May 08, 2015 1:27 pm

Yep, have personal experience living next to railroad tracks; spent a lot of time in my youth at my Grandparents' house in Webster Groves a ½ block from that same line. And a sister-in-law that lived into a house right next a different line for a time. You honestly learn to tune the trains out.

If the Maserati/Fiat dealer looks like the new Tristar Mercedes on Hampton it'd be quite acceptable. Don't know if there's any impetus for them to do so given the designs of the adjacent BMW and Mini dealers (which aren't awful as far as dealerships go, honestly, but aren't exactly 'urban'). They're building a nice little Auto Row there, but a car dealership is still probably the least sensible thing to put in a TOD.

I'm very happy to see the apartments going in there. They'll hopefully be much better quality than the complex razed a few years ago; those were legitimately sketchy. I do wonder what kind of access they'll put to the Sunnen station?

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dweebe » Fri May 08, 2015 1:35 pm

rbb wrote:Yep, have personal experience living next to railroad tracks; spent a lot of time in my youth at my Grandparents' house in Webster Groves a ½ block from that same line. And a sister-in-law that lived into a house right next a different line for a time. You honestly learn to tune the trains out.


True: but look at the value of those houses in Kirkwood and Webster that butt up against tracks. The same house a block or two away will be $50K more.
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Fri May 08, 2015 2:38 pm

As long as the trains aren't shaking the building I'd think it'd be fine.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by MarkHaversham » Fri May 08, 2015 5:18 pm

dweebe wrote:
rbb wrote:Yep, have personal experience living next to railroad tracks; spent a lot of time in my youth at my Grandparents' house in Webster Groves a ½ block from that same line. And a sister-in-law that lived into a house right next a different line for a time. You honestly learn to tune the trains out.


True: but look at the value of those houses in Kirkwood and Webster that butt up against tracks. The same house a block or two away will be $50K more.

Some people like houses that cost $50k less. But, I can see how it wouldn't be developers' first choice for residential.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dweebe » Fri May 08, 2015 6:13 pm

MarkHaversham wrote:
dweebe wrote:
rbb wrote:Yep, have personal experience living next to railroad tracks; spent a lot of time in my youth at my Grandparents' house in Webster Groves a ½ block from that same line. And a sister-in-law that lived into a house right next a different line for a time. You honestly learn to tune the trains out.


True: but look at the value of those houses in Kirkwood and Webster that butt up against tracks. The same house a block or two away will be $50K more.

Some people like houses that cost $50k less. But, I can see how it wouldn't be developers' first choice for residential.


That was my angle.
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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dredger » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:54 pm

Could Sunnen be landing another car dealership? Their is a PD building block article noting a second area maserati dealership @ Hanley & Manchester. Sunnen has its facility in the southeast corner if not mistaken but not sure where their foot print extends. Article behind pay wall.

I believe their is the property that was suppose to be home to a new bank branch once upon time in the northwest corner of Hanely & Manchester. I don't believe Sunnen owns that but who knows how much property they have at this point.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:23 pm

^check out post #1 of this thread

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by dredger » Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:21 pm

Sunnen article in this weeks Biz Journals weekly. Any insight or new details from those who might have subscription access?

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... oject.html

I'm still amazed how well the highlands development had gone at the old stadium site and how Sunnen has either struggled, not put together something together attractive and or simply has not been aggressive/land banking or all of the above. I think the city should find a way to secure additional area around Highlands/Forest Park CC for Highland Developers where as I pretty much see no change in how Sunnen is going forward. They don't want to seem embrace density/connectivity and yet act like someone who wants to be in Chesterfield will call them instead.

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Re: Sunnen TOD? -Retail+Dealership+Sunnen Market Apartments

Unread post by moorlander » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:57 pm

Maplewood approved this

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