North county/ Ferguson The Aftermath

New and changing stores, restaurants, and businesses in the City of St. Louis
I know it is a little early but I feel what happen or what still had not happen would have a long lasting but mostly Local effect on North county. For example now the Canfield Green apartments are not about 25% to 50% occupied if occupancy stays that low it could force the rent of $550 a month even lower. Also it could force down the rent in other apartments complexes in the area. With prices that low it could draw more poorer people out of the city to move there. That can directly can cause more gentrification in the city.
If city building owners don't want to compete with the possibility of long term lower rents in north county they may become more eager to rehab their building for higher rent / sell demographic.
It is still to early to see the long term effects but there will be some form of aftermath in local real estate , politics ,crime, and economics. With mostly a negative effect on north county. Also maybe a positive effect on the city.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/joelanderson/ev ... on-neighbo
Exactly how broad is the charter for the Ferguson Commission? Could they recommend, say, merging all police departments, into a single structure? Could they recommend new ways to distribute tax dollars in cities and the county including St. Louis City? St. Charles County? Since it was formed by the Governor, I assume they could look at wide regional issues, not just the county or city.


TL;DR: White flight happens because white people are despicable racists who will do anything and everything to get away from living around black people. Black flight, however, happens because black people are merely seeking better opportunities for their families. Bless them.
Anglophile wrote:


TL;DR: White flight happens because white people are despicable racists who will do anything and everything to get away from living around black people. Black flight, however, happens because black people are merely seeking better opportunities for their families. Bless them.


Who doesn't want better opportunities? While I could understand your sentiments, I'm strongly against white/middle class flight, because it creates more vacancy and sprawl and leaves people disadvantaged who are left behind. But I don't think its fair for people to be against white flight, and gentrification. you can't complain for decades that the well to do move away, then complain when they move back its pretty hypocritical.
But I think in the aftermath of this Ferguson chapter is pretty much going to be this the city is going to continue its revitalization like normal. I also think the new center of poverty is not going to be the city but N. county, which leads me to my theory why french is so interested it the politics of Ferguson. I think that is where he might see that area is the place his base is moving and may plan to run for office there. any thoughts?
because white people are despicable racists


I think my eyes just rolled out of my head.
true dope, I have an acquantaince who works for a company that began talks prior to August 9th to purchase a complex next to Canfield Green and apparently the owners pretty much are now offering to sell for a song.

It sure will be interesting to see how this all turns out with property values, demographic changes, etc... for example, will a significant amount of African Americans living in the City who might have been inclined to move to North County in the past now remain in the City as they see that general quality of life may not be as great in NoCo as it once was? As the County is now increasingly facing the types of problems that have confronted the city, such as beleaguered school systems, perhaps more will stay put or seek out "better" parts of the City.
Oops, I guess my sarcasm didn't come through as strongly as I thought. What I meant to say is that a lot of the articles discussing demographic changes in North City/County often do so with the assumption that white people always have some kind of sinister ulterior motive for moving out, while black flight is done for the good of the family. It also seems like white people get blamed a lot more for "abandoning their communities" than black people do when they do the same thing. It doesn't seem fair to me.
Im curious to know. Why don't blacks move to south county instead of north county? I would think theres better opportunities for jobs there and housing ?I'm guessing the south lacks adequate transportation? I'm just curious as sometimes i think of it.
Anglophile wrote:
Oops, I guess my sarcasm didn't come through as strongly as I thought. What I meant to say is that a lot of the articles discussing demographic changes in North City/County often do so with the assumption that white people always have some kind of sinister ulterior motive for moving out, while black flight is done for the good of the family. It also seems like white people get blamed a lot more for "abandoning their communities" than black people do when they do the same thing. It doesn't seem fair to me.

White people fleeing neighborhoods because they got worried by the black people moving in is definitely thing, if not as prominent lately as before, and much more complicated than the slogan suggests.
TheNewSaintLouis wrote:
Im curious to know. Why don't blacks move to south county instead of north county? I would think theres better opportunities for jobs there and housing ?I'm guessing the south lacks adequate transportation? I'm just curious as sometimes i think of it.

Proximity to their old friends and neighborhoods is probably part of it. Affordability, as well.

Are there that many jobs in South County? North County has Boeing, Ford, Lambert, etc. I would think many people in SoCo are commuting to West County or the City.
MarkHaversham wrote:
White people fleeing neighborhoods because they got worried by the black people moving in is definitely thing, if not as prominent lately as before, and much more complicated than the slogan suggests.


Yeah, but were they fleeing merely because some of their new neighbors were black or because the influx was accompanied by increased crime and decreased property values? I don't buy the argument that white people are so terrified that they uproot their entire lives at the first sign of black people. There's usually something more going on that pushes people out.
Migration within the STL region tends to follow similar patterns.

Whites who moved out of north city to north county later moved to St. Charles County. I've heard of whole subdivisions in St. Peters and O Fallon made up of former NoCo residents.

Also look at the center of our Jewish community. It spread from the West End to U. City and then Creve Coeur and Chesterfield. Folks in South city moved to SoCo and Jefferson County. Sure there are exceptions, but for the most part city to suburb relocation has followed familiar patterns around here, regardless of race.
Not to say race isn't a part of it.
southsidepride wrote:
Migration within the STL region tends to follow similar patterns.

Whites who moved out of north city to north county later moved to St. Charles County. I've heard of whole subdivisions in St. Peters and O Fallon made up of former NoCo residents.

Also look at the center of our Jewish community. It spread from the West End to U. City and then Creve Coeur and Chesterfield. Folks in South city moved to SoCo and Jefferson County. Sure there are exceptions, but for the most part city to suburb relocation has followed familiar patterns around here, regardless of race.
Not to say race isn't a part of it.


In relation to this. Is it just me or is there more white reaction from people in St. Charles County to the events than those in West County and especially South County in part due to this migration factor? And also is there noticeable social barriers between suburbs in the area due to the migration patterns due to the differences that result from it?

As to long term effects, it really depends on what happens and who ends up in power after 2016 in the area and state. Since the whole range of scenarios could play out due to how divided opinions are. It will likely just retrench people's views on things.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous to say that the seemingly never ending flight of white people further and further north is not rooted in racial conflict. Many of them would not have moved at all if "undesirable" middle class black people had not started moving into their neighborhoods. Most people don't want to leave the neighborhood they have spent their whole lives in, but they will if they are consumed by the mass hysteria that is fostered by the real estate companies, media and their own warped world views.
It also seems like white people get blamed a lot more for "abandoning their communities" than black people do when they do the same thing. It doesn't seem fair to me.


Because white people fleeing usually take the community's wealth with them. When black people leave a poor-black neighborhood, for the most part we aren't talking about the same level of money flow. Put the two together, poor people from a poor place move to a previously prosperous place that the wealth has fled from, and their resulting situation is no better due to the opportunities they moved to pursue having left. There's a tipping point in there, too. Once the black or poor (both?) pop crosses 15 or 20% of the total, below which demographics are stable, there is typically an acceleration of white flight that doesn't end until the tract in question is predominately black/minority/poor. How much of this driven by race I do not know. But munis ought to have policies in place that aim to keep demographics in stable territory so wealth doesn't flee, and so newcomers get access to the opportunities they were seeking in the first place.
I think most of you have this wrong. First off, people move out when HUD housing moves in. When HUD housing begins, suddenly property values nearby drop, HUD housing owners have no clue how to take care of their property, etc. As a result, people start renting their house, and let's face it -- just like renting a car, people renting a house don't always take care of it. This is what's happening in Spanish Lake, and all over North County.

That's why the big uproar occurred in South County. People take care of their property in Oakville and suddenly Dooley/Stenger allow a giant HUD housing project and people revolt. They are revolting because they want to protect the property values that they worked hard to maintain. Sadly news media and people not from the area think these folks are "stuck up" when they don't understand what's going on.

HUD housing isn't as big in South County as it is in North County. That's why the blacks are concentrated up there.
a "giant" HUD housing project
The project in Oakville wasn't huge, it was 45 units for elderly people. Grandmas and grandpas. Old folks who don't have much money. Real criminal types. :roll:
realclear wrote:
a "giant" HUD housing project
The project in Oakville wasn't huge, it was 45 units for elderly people. Grandmas and grandpas. Old folks who don't have much money. Real criminal types. :roll:

They always cheat at blackjack.
Can we all agree now Ferguson, and North county is dead.
^ I agree about Ferguson. Don't see how it could bounce back anytime soon. Total (metaphorical) carnage tonight.
wustl_eng wrote:
^ I agree about Ferguson. Don't see how it could bounce back anytime soon. Total (metaphorical) carnage tonight.


At. least the city did not burn
went to bed at 8:45 last night, and I am completely horrified as to what I have woken up to. Shameful.
These people are all terrorists, in my opinion.
i,Iive,to,draw wrote:
Can we all agree now Ferguson, and North county is dead.


I know this statement is very tin-foil hat crazy: but it's almost like they sacrificed Ferguson to spare places like Clayton.
i,Iive,to,draw wrote:
Can we all agree now Ferguson, and North county is dead.


Yes. The perfect 1950s suburban American Dream of North County is dead.
I'm going back to Ferguson Brewing and Malone's Bar as soon as I can.

We don't let them win.