Predicting the next "Grove"

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Which Neighborhood is the next Grove?

Gravois Park/Cherokee/BPW
33%
9
Benton Park/Marine Villa
11%
3
Downtown West
26%
7
Botanical Heights/Tiffany
4%
1
Old North/Hyde Park
7%
2
Bevo/Dutchtown
7%
2
Dogtown
11%
3

ImprovSTL wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:48 am
leeharveyawesome wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:49 am
dweebe wrote:

I was going to say the same thing and was wondering why South Broadway/Carondelet-Patch got left off the poll? That area was going to be my vote.
I would vote South Broadway-Carondelet-Patch as well.
I left The Patch off because of some of the reasons listed above earlier. I would LOVE to see this area boom but it is too far and isolated I feel like. I thought about adding the Landing. Still feel like the removal of the interstate will have to happen to get a lot of people to move there.

I think Downtown West and the Locust area of Midtown have the best chance to see that explosion of growth.

Having said that, I literally put my money on McKinley/Fox Park as the Metrolink could make that a very desirable area. Time will tell.
Can you explain why Dogtown is on the list? Yes location location location: but beyond that where is the explosive growth opportunity?
dweebe wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:21 am
Can you explain why Dogtown is on the list? Yes location location location: but beyond that where is the explosive growth opportunity?
Dogtown is a great neighborhood for teardowns. Its location is excellent, and it has lots of cheap, non-architecturally significant houses. But it certainly doesn't seem like it has the opportunity for explosive growth.
I wonder when Downtown East St. Louis will earn a place in this discussion. The downtown area at least is not by any means huge and already has metro access. One billionaire could very feasibly renovate what buildings still remain and groom nearby lots for transit oriented development.

In the downtown there are only two buildings left that would be a serious challenge to renovate: The Brownfield Hotel and the Spivey Building. Everything else is under four stories tall.

Outside of the two hard buildings, the scale of repairing every building between the highway and 6th street would be similar to the 14th Street Mall project from a few years back. DT ESTL has an advantage over ONSTL because they have easy access to Metro, a few local government jobs, and the SIU Campus. The building blocks are all there somebody just needs to take a chance on the area.
dweebe wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:21 am
ImprovSTL wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:48 am
leeharveyawesome wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:49 am


I would vote South Broadway-Carondelet-Patch as well.
I left The Patch off because of some of the reasons listed above earlier. I would LOVE to see this area boom but it is too far and isolated I feel like. I thought about adding the Landing. Still feel like the removal of the interstate will have to happen to get a lot of people to move there.

I think Downtown West and the Locust area of Midtown have the best chance to see that explosion of growth.

Having said that, I literally put my money on McKinley/Fox Park as the Metrolink could make that a very desirable area. Time will tell.
Can you explain why Dogtown is on the list? Yes location location location: but beyond that where is the explosive growth opportunity?
Yeah, I felt there is a commercial corridor that could see a lot more build out and the housing stock is cheap and expendable in many places for new bigger units. I made it Dogtown instead of the specific neighborhoods because there are a lot of areas I could see growth happening around there.
GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:56 am
I wonder when Downtown East St. Louis will earn a place in this discussion. The downtown area at least is not by any means huge and already has metro access. One billionaire could very feasibly renovate what buildings still remain and groom nearby lots for transit oriented development.

In the downtown there are only two buildings left that would be a serious challenge to renovate: The Brownfield Hotel and the Spivey Building. Everything else is under three stories tall.

Outside of the two hard buildings, the scale of repairing every building between the highway and 6th street would be similar to the 14th Street Mall project from a few years back. DT ESTL has an advantage over ONSTL because they have easy access to Metro, a few local government jobs, and the SIU Campus. The building blocks are all there somebody just needs to take a chance on the area.
- East St. Louis needs to get stable financing first. Not growing, just stable.
- Hire planners and engineers. I have thought multiple times that St. Louis and East St. Louis would both benefit from a shared planner and engineer. Maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 split on cost.
- Find ways to connect bike/ped to riverfront and Downtown St. Louis. My preferred option is to remove a lane on Eads bridge, then alternate the single lane during rush hours. (Morning = west bound, Evening = east bound)
- Bi-State should enhance Downtown East St. Louis MetroLink to better accommodate the neighborhood.
- Bi-State should create a new MetroLink line (Green Line) from Union Station to East St. Louis. Then bring back free lunch rides.
- Find developers to rebuild/redevelop hundreds of residential structures within a 1000 foot radius of Missouri and Collinsville.
My hope would be Fountain Park
This is a hard question b/c FPSE is a rather unique neighborhood (for some of the reasons others have mentioned such as ideal location + large vacancy) that has allowed it to burst with projects; also several of those n'hoods listed already have a lot going on with activity and a decent residential density.

Anyway, I guess my choice for a currently diamond-in-the-rough neighborhood that is poised to see both an infusion of new biz on a commercial strip and booming residential activity around it would be the west Downtown West/east Midtown Alley area.
while it won't be seeing the success of the Grove any time soon, i feel like the retail stretch along Meramec between Grand and Minnesota is on the verge of a more subdued comeback (for the Nth time). the success on nearby Cherokee St. and the upcoming bike/pedestrian improvements between Meramec and Cherokee along Louisiana should help to solidify that stretch of Dutchtown.
I could see the Downtown West-Midtown Alley area becoming similar to Crossroads in Kansas City. Another formerly industrial space that is a similar distance to their downtown.
Downtown West Midtown corridor
Carondelet along So Broadway and Ivory Triangle
Dutchtown along Meremac
Bevo


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I guess my 2c on places like Bevo and most others mentioned in South City is that these already are pretty dense, rather intact places where you're just not going to see rapid growth. Some neighborhood change is going on in them for sure and some are seeing/will see more rehab activity, etc. than others but it still just seems much different than what's been happening in FPSE & McRee Town.

Also, fwiw, Bevo has been seeing a significant amount of new restaurants in the past year; it's a less Bosnian-dominant scene but one with an even more diverse, international flavor. Honestly I hope it retains this character and is more of an welcoming, flourishing immigrant neighborhood as opposed to the next trendy Grove.
Speculating on what the next cool urban neighborhood will be is totally what 20-40 something white dudes do.

And it's ok. :o
I would be looking at the Midtown over next few years. With SLU in control over TIF's in the area and new Executive Director of Redevelopment Corporation they are laying out the ground for some big things in the area. City Foundry is just a start...

https://www.slu.edu/news/2016/november/ ... leased.php
I think the midtown area east of SLU to the Downtown West area where the shipping container development/rehabs were announced has the biggest potential for retail and multifamily growth.

Fox Park and McKinley Heights have a great chance to become nice single family neighborhoods.
I recently took a brief walk through The Hill, and I was surprised by how much tear-down and new infill was going on. All those small, inexpensive shotgun-style worker's cottages are ripe for the picking. Of course, I think most new development will be limited to single-family, but I can see The Hill really taking off.
Spoke with someone at Vivianos a couple weeks ago who purchased a small home on the hill, on shaw, for 30K in the mid 90s. Worth over 200K now.
"The Hill is Hot":

http://www.constructforstl.org/the-hill ... ghborhood/

Maybe someone with access to the Business Journal could fill us in on the rest of the article.
The CWE north of Delmar up to about Page. No question.
debaliviere wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:41 am
dweebe wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:21 am
Can you explain why Dogtown is on the list? Yes location location location: but beyond that where is the explosive growth opportunity?
Dogtown is a great neighborhood for teardowns. Its location is excellent, and it has lots of cheap, non-architecturally significant houses. But it certainly doesn't seem like it has the opportunity for explosive growth.
it's quietly happening...there's lots of small/medium even large projects across dogtown and the hill...when you look at it in total it's big...just not splashy in the same way. teardowns are noticeably accelerating in dogtown...
Lacledes Landing/North Broadway.

Wishful thinking, Baden/Carondelet.