Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

A catch-all forum for urban discussion. If it doesn't fit elsewhere, post here.
jstriebel
Totally Addicted
Totally Addicted
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby jstriebel » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:40 am

I really can understand how Lyft is perceived as unfair competition.

But the response needs to be for MTC to deregulate some AND to utilize more and better technology.

Taxis are NOT practical in STL, and the status quo is BS.


User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:17 pm

jstriebel wrote:I really can understand how Lyft is perceived as unfair competition.

But the response needs to be for MTC to deregulate some AND to utilize more and better technology.

Taxis are NOT practical in STL, and the status quo is BS.

Agreed, jstriebel.


Aesir
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:15 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby Aesir » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:36 pm

Lost in all this is the issue of why the hell we have a Taxi Commission with 3 of the members directly part of the major taxi companies (probably more).

If that isn't corruption, I dunno what is.

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 am

Aesir wrote:Lost in all this is the issue of why the hell we have a Taxi Commission with 3 of the members directly part of the major taxi companies (probably more).

If that isn't corruption, I dunno what is.

Because it's guaranteed by an out-of-date state law that precludes competition in the market. It makes sense to have taxi representation on a taxi commission but much less when it serves to stifle innovation and consumer choice as it does now.

Contact your state representative:

- http://inspire.innov8ion.com/2014/04/ap ... in-st.html
- http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C000-099/0670001806.HTM

TheNewSaintLouis
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:17 am

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby TheNewSaintLouis » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:03 am

I don't think the Taxi Commission nor the City would have thought of a Lyft or Uber would ever come of existence however it's time to let those rules go & be more progressive & welcoming.

People are always going to want options particularly over much dreaded taxi's.

Lyft & Uber are good for STL.


mattonarsenal
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:24 am
Location: Tower Grove South

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby mattonarsenal » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:57 am

Curious... Has Lyft even been operating since its initial few weeks of operation a couple of months ago? I tried it out a few times, and liked it, but every time I checked the app after the first couple of weeks there were no rides available. I figured they shut down operations due to the legal issues, but maybe I just wasn't patient enough and demand exceeded drivers?

Overall it was a great service.

Another question... they seemed like they had all their ducks in a row with driver background checks, insurance and car inspections. What was the actual issue with the MTC, not paying some kind of fee (aka bribe) to MTC so they could work in STL?

roger wyoming II
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 8157
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:31 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby roger wyoming II » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:06 am

^ Its an issue going on all across the country.... it is an understandable transition of how to fit this new type of service into antiquated regulatory systems.
@STLRainbow

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:52 pm

mattonarsenal wrote:Curious... Has Lyft even been operating since its initial few weeks of operation a couple of months ago? I tried it out a few times, and liked it, but every time I checked the app after the first couple of weeks there were no rides available. I figured they shut down operations due to the legal issues, but maybe I just wasn't patient enough and demand exceeded drivers?

Overall it was a great service.

Another question... they seemed like they had all their ducks in a row with driver background checks, insurance and car inspections. What was the actual issue with the MTC, not paying some kind of fee (aka bribe) to MTC so they could work in STL?

Lyft stopped operations in respect of the local court's decision. It's been months since they have provided service in the metro area.

What's the actual issue raised by the MTC? When it comes down to it, Lyft is approximately 20% cheaper and provides better service than local taxis. The MTC is afraid of competition although they will never admit it openly. The RFT posted an analysis of the issues the judge raised.

jstriebel
Totally Addicted
Totally Addicted
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby jstriebel » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:15 pm

I happen to think the MTC is right that Lyft is a comparable service and should be subject to similar regulations. Whether they should be subject to the exact same regulations probably requires a more in-depth look than I've given it.

But ultimately the point is that we need to re-evaluate those regulations, how they're being created, and how they're being enforced.

Because the system we have right now is stymying innovation and competition. Which is utterly awful for the consumer.

dweebe
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:48 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby dweebe » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:32 pm

Are Ride Sharing Services Cutting Down On Drunk Driving?

http://autos.aol.com/article/ride-sharing-uber-drunk-driving/
Uppity Doopity Dop

User avatar
moorlander
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 7396
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: East of Hanley

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby moorlander » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:12 pm

Does anyone have a preference between Lyft and Uber? Does either differentiate themselves?

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:17 pm

moorlander wrote:Does anyone have a preference between Lyft and Uber? Does either differentiate themselves?

Uber offers many services so it's not an apples to apples comparison. Of the Uber offerings below, only uberX can be compared to Lyft. Ref: https://www.uber.com/

Only the Uber offerings of Taxi, Black, SUV, and LUX are traditional taxi services. This is why Mayor Slay has stated on Twitter that Uber will hit the market before Lyft will. To be clear, this excludes uberX as it faces similar hurdles as Lyft.

"It's important to clarify that Uber has not be been talking with the Mayor's team about its ridesharing product, UberX," Simpson said. "Uber has been focused only on its professional limo product called Uber Black, and that's why it hasn't sought significant changes at this point to the existing rules. The limo rules clearly do apply to Uber Black, and those rules clearly do not apply to ridesharing. As in every other location around the country, we anticipate that if Uber ever decides to bring its UberX ridesharing product to St. Louis, Uber will seek the same regulatory changes that Lyft will be seeking."

From: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 26a46.html


Uber Service Levels:
- uberX: Peer to peer transportation like Lyft. This is where drivers like you and I can use our own cars as "taxis" to give people rides using the uberX app. Of course, only after we've gone through the approval process and are insured.
- Taxi: Yellow taxi
- Black: High-end, black sedan taxi
- SUV: SUV (seats up to 6) taxi
- LUX. Luxury taxi

mattonarsenal
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:24 am
Location: Tower Grove South

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby mattonarsenal » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:01 pm

jstriebel wrote:I happen to think the MTC is right that Lyft is a comparable service and should be subject to similar regulations. Whether they should be subject to the exact same regulations probably requires a more in-depth look than I've given it.

But ultimately the point is that we need to re-evaluate those regulations, how they're being created, and how they're being enforced.

Because the system we have right now is stymying innovation and competition. Which is utterly awful for the consumer.


I've been following the pretty closely, and I still don't understand what Lyft/UberX are trying to avoid?

They both seem to have pretty strict requirements for drivers/vehicles, that made me feel confident climbing into a Lyft ride. Where are they falling short? Does MTC have regulations that are written so it is impossible for these services to comply? Is there an actual quota for taxis on the street, so they would force all of the "ride share" drivers to pay a fee for a medallion or similar?

What appealed to me was the ease of the technology, which is something the taxi companies could fairly easily implement. But more importantly, the increased supply and service that they offered far exceeds my experience with cabs in STL.

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:03 pm

^ The MTC's code is ~80 pages long or something. It's pretty ridiculous.

This is why a two-tiered system is being developed in Chicago: http://voices.suntimes.com/business-2/u ... g-chicago/

St. Louis is currently backward in this regard as it treats peer to peer taxi services like uberX and Lyft the same as traditional taxi services. This is wrong and the FTC has already stated so as it stifles innovation and reduces consumer choice.

However, County Executive Dooley and Mayor Slay have an opportunity to show leadership in creating a two-tier system within the MTC that would enable innovation and consumer choice in the peer to peer segment of the taxi industry.

As had been stated earlier, common sense dictates it will reduce the percentage of DUI arrests and problems caused by drunk drivers. This appears to be a safety issue that our leaders are on the wrong side of.

If you want a two-tiered regulatory system that promotes safety and choice, let Dooley and Slay know.

Greatest St. Louis
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby Greatest St. Louis » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:57 am

Taxicab commission changes pave way for Uber to enter St. Louis:

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... -uber.html

But hold your horses:

The rule changes pave the way for Uber to operate its Uber Black service, which offers premium sedan rides. It differs from UberX, which allows nonprofessional drivers to use their own cars to give rides.


Not only that, but:

Meanwhile, Lyft, the peer-to-peer ride-sharing company that has been barred from doing business in St. Louis pending a final ruling from a St. Louis judge, received more bad news.

Lyft won’t be back in court until August 2015, according to MTC spokesman Richard Callow.

Hamilton said the commission likely won’t negotiate with Lyft until the matter has played out in court.


Thuggish taxicab commission.

UGH

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:08 pm

^ The MTC has been pretty protectionist, but with yesterday's code changes, the tide appears to be turning. Also note that Chris Sommers, owner of Pi Pizza and digital entrepreneur, has recently been appointed to the board. If Uber applies for and is granted a CCN, they too can join the board with an appointment. This would serve to better balance the MTC, providing for fairer regulations that support open market competition and consumer choice.

I also wish that yesterday's code changes enabled ride-sharing to enter the St. Louis market, but this is a contentious issue that will inevitably be worked out in time. The FTC has our backs as well. If the MTC pulled anything stupid with Uber(BLACK) yesterday, the FTC may have spoken out as they had in Chicago and D.C.

I'm pleased, fwiw.

jstriebel
Totally Addicted
Totally Addicted
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby jstriebel » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:31 pm

My only question is what this means for the level between UberX (peer-to-peer) and Uber Black (slightly high-end service)—Uber Taxi.

If Uber applies and receives a license, does that level of service now meet the regulations?

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:52 pm

jstriebel wrote:My only question is what this means for the level between UberX (peer-to-peer) and Uber Black (slightly high-end service)—Uber Taxi.

If Uber applies and receives a license, does that level of service now meet the regulations?

No, MTC code (which currently doesn't jibe w/ Lyft or UberX) has supremacy. Currently, regulations only allow for UberBLACK.

It's a good first step, nonetheless.

User avatar
rbb
Expert Member
Expert Member
Posts: 1232
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby rbb » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:09 am

Greatest St. Louis wrote:Taxicab commission changes pave way for Uber to enter St. Louis:

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... -uber.html

But hold your horses:

Not only that, but:

Meanwhile, Lyft, the peer-to-peer ride-sharing company that has been barred from doing business in St. Louis pending a final ruling from a St. Louis judge, received more bad news.

Lyft won’t be back in court until August 2015, according to MTC spokesman Richard Callow.

Hamilton said the commission likely won’t negotiate with Lyft until the matter has played out in court.


Thuggish taxicab commission.

UGH


Rachel Lippman says the delay was Lyft's idea.

-RBB

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:45 am

^ It doesn't seem like a legal issue to me, anyway. The issue appears to be with the MTC in its overt steps to stifle innovation and restrict consumer choice in the taxi industry -- and more specifically -- the rideshare segment.

Clearly, time is needed to change the culture in this quasi-governmental organization that has favored existing taxi owners at the expense of both consumers and new entrants to the taxi market. Also note that UberBLACK is not even part of the rideshare segment yet it's taken 8 or so months for the MTC to change its code to the point where Uber could even consider operating here.

It's plain sad and bordering on corrupt. The time to start changing this is now...

jstriebel
Totally Addicted
Totally Addicted
Posts: 1749
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:17 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby jstriebel » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:07 pm

^ You've stayed pretty up on this and certainly done a great job keeping us informed... so what's your opinion on what can be done to help spur change in the system? I know call our reps, contact City Hall, etc. Those are legit and something I'm happy to do, but at the same time I can't say that past results with that make me feel confident, so do you have any other ideas how we can "make some noise" if you will?

User avatar
innov8ion
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:20 am
Location: WashAve
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby innov8ion » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:02 pm

jstriebel wrote:^ You've stayed pretty up on this and certainly done a great job keeping us informed... so what's your opinion on what can be done to help spur change in the system? I know call our reps, contact City Hall, etc. Those are legit and something I'm happy to do, but at the same time I can't say that past results with that make me feel confident, so do you have any other ideas how we can "make some noise" if you will?

Thanks Justin. Above and beyond that, there's other things you can do. Obviously, you can express your opinions in social and other forms of media.

If you want to make a bigger impact, consider becoming an effective advocate. A couple admirable examples off the top of my head include Michael Allen and the Vines Brothers. I think what sets them apart are their keen abilities to listen, understand a given issue, strategize, communicate, and organize/lead. Also, while they may have strong feelings about a topic, they don't let their emotions get the best of them and become venemous when things aren't going their way. They're pretty even-keeled.

Many that consider themselves advocates/activists aren't so effective because they may become upset that change doesn't come as soon as they would like. Then they can become combative and/or jaded. That typically doesn't work out so well.

xing
Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Posts: 2678
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:07 pm
Location: Chicago/O'Fallon IL
Contact:

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby xing » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:26 pm

I've been using Uber in Chicago. Do they still not have it in St Louis? I feel like they've been talking about it, because I've seen spam e-mails from the company talking about St Louis.

They work with taxi's too. It use to be a pain for me to find a taxi at 4am , when, and if , I had to work that early. I can seriously call one with my phone, at 4am, and it'll arrive in front of my door, in under 5 minutes. They also have black SUV's and luxury cars, which I don't usually need, although I can see a situation where I may need one for work. If Im in a budget crunch, I can call for regular cars too.
"I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics."

dweebe
Life Member
Life Member
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:48 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby dweebe » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:21 pm

xing wrote:I've been using Uber in Chicago. Do they still not have it in St Louis? I feel like they've been talking about it, because I've seen spam e-mails from the company talking about St Louis.

They work with taxi's too. It use to be a pain for me to find a taxi at 4am , when, and if , I had to work that early. I can seriously call one with my phone, at 4am, and it'll arrive in front of my door, in under 5 minutes. They also have black SUV's and luxury cars, which I don't usually need, although I can see a situation where I may need one for work. If Im in a budget crunch, I can call for regular cars too.


Of course not. St. Louis will always be years behind Chicago on anything.

Uber is close on the limo type service to businesses and hotels in St. Louis: but nothing else
Uppity Doopity Dop

Randy
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Lyft and competition in the Taxi Market

Unread postby Randy » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:00 pm

Looks like Uber Black is launching in St. Louis this weekend and giving everyone a free ride with promo code STLFREE.

http://bit.ly/uberstl



Return to “Urban Living”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests