^^Not sure why they've stuck with asphalt in front of of the museum instead of stone. Here and in front of the new wing it just looks like it'd look better with a stone street instead of the asphalt.
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^Did Serra specify the paver? Wasn't the thing originally in an asphalt street? I'm inclined to agree that some kind of paving stone would be nicer there, but . . . not my call. Ah well. Still, nice to see the thing in place.
I drove over it last night while going between meetings. I was expecting... more. Looks like something complete non-artist me could come up with. Though I suppose that applies to a lot of Serra's work.framer wrote: ↑Dec 19, 2018Fine Arts Drive is open again, complete with a new Richard Serra sculpture:
https://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/ ... c18ac.html
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Yep, this is To Encircle Base Plate Hexagram, Right Angles Inverted in its original installation in the Bronx:symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Dec 19, 2018^Did Serra specify the paver? Wasn't the thing originally in an asphalt street? I'm inclined to agree that some kind of paving stone would be nicer there, but . . . not my call. Ah well. Still, nice to see the thing in place.
So the idea of it is that you don't even notice it at first, but it becomes more noticeable either as you come upon it (either driving or walking) or as you elevate yourself above the street level. It's minimalism taken perhaps to its purest form. Originally it was also supposed to contrast with it's surroundings - a fresh geometric steel art feature embedded in a broken street on a beaten-down, high-crime block in the Bronx. It would be quite noticeable from when viewed from the surrounding buildings but would be easily missed if you were just driving down the block.
That's certainly not where it is now, but they may (and this is pure speculation) have been trying to stay closer to Serra's original instructions by embedding it in asphalt - especially seeing as there was a concrete driving surface there before. I could see that being justifiable, but given it's already been taken far out of its original context personally I think embedding it in a concrete or stone driving surface would have been fine. Or they could just have been doing this on the cheap, in which case some criticism would be justified.
-RBB
^Cool. Thanks for the background RBB. Some great context there. I had no idea. It definitely makes the asphalt make more sense. Also, it's hard to imagine the museum installing it without consulting Serra.
Impossible to create the atmosphere/experience of the Bronx on Art Hill - but it certainly helps understand the choice of materials.
Impossible to create the atmosphere/experience of the Bronx on Art Hill - but it certainly helps understand the choice of materials.
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Since it's made of fairly durable materials and the traffic isn't that absurdly punishing one assumes it will be there a bit longer than the paving, so . . .
You know what would be neat? Maybe stone or textured concrete paving for the bulk of the drive, but truly nasty, abused, distressed asphalt in the middle of and immediately surrounding the piece. Clearly you're never going to see it from above in the way it was intended, but primarily from the drive and you miss it perspective or while walking across. So some neat context and some explanation could be cool. Of course, one assumes Serra had and will continue to have a considerable say in how it's installed.
You know what would be neat? Maybe stone or textured concrete paving for the bulk of the drive, but truly nasty, abused, distressed asphalt in the middle of and immediately surrounding the piece. Clearly you're never going to see it from above in the way it was intended, but primarily from the drive and you miss it perspective or while walking across. So some neat context and some explanation could be cool. Of course, one assumes Serra had and will continue to have a considerable say in how it's installed.
The museum's website has surprisingly little to say about the piece.
"An important work by American sculptor Richard Serra is being installed in the road between the Main Building steps and the Apotheosis of St. Louis statue. Serra meant for this work to be embedded in asphalt so that it can be driven and walked over, rather than simply observed.
The sculpture—To Encircle Base Plate Hexagram, Right Angles Inverted—consists of large circular forms embedded eight inches in the ground, visible from above though barely apparent at street level. The sculpture is simple in form though complex in conception. As the title suggests, the two steel flanges come together to encircle, contain, and define space..."
A bit more history here:
https://www.slam.org/press/whats-happening-out-there/
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"An important work by American sculptor Richard Serra is being installed in the road between the Main Building steps and the Apotheosis of St. Louis statue. Serra meant for this work to be embedded in asphalt so that it can be driven and walked over, rather than simply observed.
The sculpture—To Encircle Base Plate Hexagram, Right Angles Inverted—consists of large circular forms embedded eight inches in the ground, visible from above though barely apparent at street level. The sculpture is simple in form though complex in conception. As the title suggests, the two steel flanges come together to encircle, contain, and define space..."
A bit more history here:
https://www.slam.org/press/whats-happening-out-there/
^Oh, man, that's going straight to the top of my queue. Can't believe I hadn't heard of it before.
The Central Fields will reopen this Spring. Can't wait to see One Hundred towering over the scene:
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From Forest Park Forever's website:
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Forest Park still has to be one of the best urban parks in the country and missed my weekend runs around the park when living in St. Louis
On my wish list of what I think it would make it even better
- Expand the zoo into the current large surface parking lot and move parking into structured parking on the other side of Hwy 40. Old FP hospital site for Theme hotel (water park feature), Zoo admin and structured parking. Believe that is plan in general but would love to see it as next big push
- Extend Loop trolley further into park, stop at zoo and maybe a long term plan to get across the highway and make a turn to east in order to hit Highlands, Community College and Science Center.
Not pat of Forest Park but always wondered if it would be possible to open up some of the creek that is now under culvert between Highway and Manchester Ave.
On my wish list of what I think it would make it even better
- Expand the zoo into the current large surface parking lot and move parking into structured parking on the other side of Hwy 40. Old FP hospital site for Theme hotel (water park feature), Zoo admin and structured parking. Believe that is plan in general but would love to see it as next big push
- Extend Loop trolley further into park, stop at zoo and maybe a long term plan to get across the highway and make a turn to east in order to hit Highlands, Community College and Science Center.
Not pat of Forest Park but always wondered if it would be possible to open up some of the creek that is now under culvert between Highway and Manchester Ave.
On your first sentence, I don't think that's even up for debate. One of the best in the world.dredger wrote: Forest Park still has to be one of the best urban parks in the country and missed my weekend runs around the park when living in St. Louis
On my wish list of what I think it would make it even better
- Expand the zoo into the large surface parking into structured parking on the other side of Hwy 40. Old FP hospital site for Theme hotel (water park feature), Zoo admin and structured parking.
- Extend Loop trolley into park, stop at zoo and maybe a long term plan to get across the highway as and make turn to east in order to hit Highlands, Community College and Science Center.
Not pat of Forest Park but always wondered if it would be possible to open up some of the creek that is now under culvert between Highway and Manchester Ave.
On your first wish list point, that was originally the plan of the Zoo, almost down to the letter if I recall this correctly. Admin and parking would be moved to the old FPH site (along with a new attraction) and the Zoo itself would be expanded to fill in the old surface parking lots. I believe a theme hotel was even being considered for the corner site.
Does anyone know what happened with that plan for the Zoo? I'm sure it's on the back burner while they work on the Safari Park in NoCo, but I never really heard much else since the original announcement.
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No joke - a Muny stop and a zoo stop would have been so awesome, and also it would connect the loop to Dogtown. I've always said they should have made a bigger pitch for the trolley as an entertainment district transport and went for Loop > Zoo > Grove > Cherokee... but that's a lot of $$$ so I can see why they didn't. 
"A friend may well be reckoned the masterpiece of nature." RWE
Mayor, I think we agreed on something. Your right, best in the world is better way to put it.The Mayor wrote:On your first sentence, I don't think that's even up for debate. One of the best in the world.dredger wrote: Forest Park still has to be one of the best urban parks in the country and missed my weekend runs around the park when living in St. Louis
I think Forest Park Forever can fill in part of the gap and museum district in the other part in terms of capital expenditures for tracks, wires and a few more cars as far as getting > Muny > zoo > Dogtown . Grove > Cherokee is a big stretch to me.pattimagee wrote: No joke - a Muny stop and a zoo stop would have been so awesome, and also it would connect the loop to Dogtown. I've always said they should have made a bigger pitch for the trolley as an entertainment district transport and went for Loop > Zoo > Grove > Cherokee... but that's a lot of $$$ so I can see why they didn't.
I also think you would need to expand the CID or whatever tax district is being used within the loop to help with operating. A theme hotel/water park would certainly help in terms in operating funds. I also think an extend trolley would spur interest in another hotel proposal whether it be in the loop more rooms within Highland Development/Hampton Ave.
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Yeah - I think its a stretch as well... but if money were free maybe. 
And as for the water park idea... I always bring up Barton Springs Pool in Austin because its just amazing and I've never been. But this would be an interesting Forest Park idea - maybe a bit too un-parky for Forest Park though... https://www.austintexas.gov/department/ ... rings-pool
And as for the water park idea... I always bring up Barton Springs Pool in Austin because its just amazing and I've never been. But this would be an interesting Forest Park idea - maybe a bit too un-parky for Forest Park though... https://www.austintexas.gov/department/ ... rings-pool
"A friend may well be reckoned the masterpiece of nature." RWE
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If we did get a water park tied to the zoo, do you think it would be free for residents? Cheap season passes? I’d be all for that.pattimagee wrote:Yeah - I think its a stretch as well... but if money were free maybe.
And as for the water park idea... I always bring up Barton Springs Pool in Austin because its just amazing and I've never been. But this would be an interesting Forest Park idea - maybe a bit too un-parky for Forest Park though... https://www.austintexas.gov/department/ ... rings-pool
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
^ I think he meant more inside of Forest Park. I doubt very much the Zoo would be interested in operating a waterpark, that's a bit out of their lane. And no, it wouldn't be free as the ZMD would have to be expanded to add any further attractions, unless a third party was willing to put up the operational funds.
Pretty cool in Austin but also see it as something suited for another city park, maybe something to reconsider for Chouteau ponds as part of the Chouteau greenway. I bring up Chouteau because you got a lot of green space downtown but no real active facilities like Forest Park updated playing fields.SeattleNative wrote:If we did get a water park tied to the zoo, do you think it would be free for residents? Cheap season passes? I’d be all for that.pattimagee wrote:Yeah - I think its a stretch as well... but if money were free maybe.
And as for the water park idea... I always bring up Barton Springs Pool in Austin because its just amazing and I've never been. But this would be an interesting Forest Park idea - maybe a bit too un-parky for Forest Park though... https://www.austintexas.gov/department/ ... rings-pool
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Instead, I was thinking more in line what Mayor articulated. I think a theme hotel with an inside waterpark or water park with zoo twist but definitely tied to the hotel and whatever the private hotel operator would want to charge is not a bad option for the zoo to pursue as part of the old Forest Park hospital site.. Becomes a revenue generator for zoo and means to finance the development of site itself.
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I touched on the plan in official Zoo thread around here (or at least the thread that gets used as one). Essentially, what they've released so far (and really, it's been nearly five years since the Zoo has released really any information on the matter) is kind of a rough outline of what they'd like to have happen, and sort of how they'd like it to look, but the pressers always stressed that it was a very long-term vision with the full plan not finishing up until the 2040-2050 time frame. So far, they've done very little with the expansion site across I-64, but that'd likely be where they'd start the expansion process and give full attention to before doing anything to the existing Zoo area on the northern side of 64. I say this as moving the parking is critical to the rest of the plan and has always been the intention even should the other parts of the vision not happen, so I'd expect the Zoo will try to move as much as they can to that site and build the pedestrian bridge over 64 before they actually do anything with the Northern Campus.The Mayor wrote: Does anyone know what happened with that plan for the Zoo? I'm sure it's on the back burner while they work on the Safari Park in NoCo, but I never really heard much else since the original announcement.
In the meantime (since 2015), you're absolutely correct in that the Zoo has been committed more towards getting the Conservation/Breeding facility set up, what with the whole Grant's Farm debacle and now the purchase of the golf course. Of course, that whole thing is Martha Fischer's "baby" and pet project so that's why it's getting all the attention even though it's a fairly unnecessary extravagance. I wouldn't expect anything to happen to the Zoo proper until anything happens with the Conservation Facility, so probably ~5 years at least. The Zoo will also need a lot of donors with deep pockets if they want to be as ambitious with the expansion as they're aiming to be, so there's always the financial aspect to overcome (particularly considering the massive deferred maintenance costs the Zoo is currently racking up).
"There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children, and the United States of America". - Otto von Bismarck
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I always thought the zoo expansion should take a queue from the Gaylord Opryland Resort Hotel. Except with an honest to god Amazonian Rainforest growing in the middle of it, complete with Capybaras, Pirahna, Sloths, and a Jaguar, plus free flying Parrots and Macaw. Build a canopy walk throught the forest and and install a launch for their gondola on the roof. It would be amazing.
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It takes some queues from the original concept but integrating the hotel into the exhibition space providing a premium hotel experience unlike any in the world.
It takes some queues from the original concept but integrating the hotel into the exhibition space providing a premium hotel experience unlike any in the world.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
^ That's the ticket. You need a good ol commercial, themed private hotel attraction at the old Forest Park hospital site to go along the zoo admin & parking structures. I don't know if you can get away with some of the animals noted but picture a water slide going through the rain forest. I bring up the water park a lot because I can't think of any hotel within I270 beltway that has such and thus not competing with existing attractions or Union Station unless mistaken
The idea that you anchor the gondola from hotel would work well, go over the new zoo exhibits on current parking lot and land on the backside of zoo.
The idea that you anchor the gondola from hotel would work well, go over the new zoo exhibits on current parking lot and land on the backside of zoo.
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