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PostAug 22, 2005#26

Sure it would be nice if the east riverfront was covered in highrise and mid rise buildings, but i just don't know that anyone should expect that to occur anytime soon. Frist off, i belive there are enviromental issues with developing the area (itsn't it a wetland area and therefore probably protected?) Secondly, there is zero infastrcture on the riverfront. Take a look at a map. Tell me what sort of street grid is in place? The area is not in any shape to start putting up buildings anytime soon. Thrid, even if buildings were put up, it will take some time for the land to gain enough value to justify larger buildings. People should be happy if 3-4 sotry apts. are built.



Ultimatly i do think the idea of a new urbanist development would address many of the problems above (in aprticular the lack of any real infastructure) and would like to see one progress. But i am also realisitic that the east side won't be seeing 20 story buildings anytime soon.

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PostAug 22, 2005#27

I disagree with the idea of high-rises on the east riverfront. Everyone here complains how Clayton takes a lot of high-rises from downtown, the east side would then do the same and downtown would have an even more difficult time getting high-rises.



Instead, in my opinion, the area immediately on the river should contain a boardwalk with some small outside shops and eateries (maybe similar to navy pier eateries in Chicago or eateries along the Wharf in San Fran). I think the architecture museum would be great. Then, instead of high-rises, I would like the idea of seeing a string of condo buildings going north-south, of 2-3 stories. These condos would be the closest to the river and offer amazing views of downtown. Then, immediately behind those could be a string of 4-5 story condo buildings where the high-floors would also offer amazing views. Then, behind those would be a string of buildings in the 6-8 story range again with views of downtown, maybe with retail on the first levels. All of this could be put east of the I-64/40 highway. Of course, they will have to move the Cargill plant (this HAS to happen for anything at all to take off).



Personally, I think if the infrastructure was there, developers would build condos and they would be snatched up faster than you can blink. The problem is how does East STL get the infrastructure to put all this in place - can they request developers to pay for this? I think if they actually designed something like this (with real architectural renderings), integrating their ideas of the architecture museum and current fountain, and then give developers serious tax incentives, I don't see why this wouldn't be possible.



Do you think if something like this were reasonable sketched up and sent to the BizJournal or STL Post it could possibly get posted?

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PostAug 22, 2005#28

^metzgda, you have a good idea. That could look really nice.

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PostAug 24, 2005#29

a boardwalk is already part of this plan, but I agree. High rises can block the views of downtown St Louis as well. It has to be dealt with strategically.

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PostAug 25, 2005#30

How tall is the Cargill Grain Elevator?



I wasn't thinking of 30-40 story buildings. I think residential highrises 15-20 stories tall would add to the culture of the city.



But I do agree with JMed, that this idea is a LONG way from even being considered. There's too much bad there, no place to really start. So why not start with the Architecture museum.

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PostAug 25, 2005#31

trent wrote:How tall is the Cargill Grain Elevator?


It's about twice as tall as the Casino Queen hotel so I'd guess 15 stories.

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PostAug 25, 2005#32

I don't see a problem with the height there. You could even go taller and not impede with the view of downtown. I don't think anything more than 20 stories would make sense though.

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PostJul 01, 2006#33

What's the status of this? I am curious at to whether this has changed.

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PostNov 03, 2007#34

The President just vetoed a water projects bill and Congress will likely override the veto this coming week. In the bill are a number of projects across the nation, but for Missouri and the St. Louis area there is close to $2B for new locks on the Mississippi in Missouri, close to $2B for environmental projects on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers AND $135M for the restoration of the East St. Louis riverfront. So what will East St. Louis do with $135M? Obviously the other projects involve much more money, but East St. Louis is probably the most relevant to this forum.

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PostNov 03, 2007#35

Jeez, I wish we could get $135 Million for the St. Louis riverfront!

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PostNov 03, 2007#36

Could they use that money for the new bridge? Particularly the rerouting of Route 3? They probably could. It is close enough to the riverfront.

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PostNov 05, 2007#37

WOW - so few ideas for what to do with $135,000,000!! I say put a kickin' pedestrian specific bridge across the river. This would be a great walk/run. I've actually been looking at lofts a bit lately as our lives get busier and busier we're looking to get rid of as much work around the home as possible, but we can't really bring ourselves to move away from Forest Park because of the running path. Address accessibility from the IL side - I don't really know what this would take. Maybe put in some rec fields - where do people downtown play if they're in a softball/soccer/whatever league? I wish we could have given this to the future MLS soccer team.

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PostNov 05, 2007#38

You can do that already with the Eads Bridge. I see people jogging on it, all the time. ^

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PostNov 05, 2007#39

Xing wrote:You can do that already with the Eads Bridge. I see people jogging on it, all the time. ^


Where do they go on the east side?

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PostNov 05, 2007#40

Typically joggers (yoggers? a soft j?) aren't en route to the Casino Queen or various other famed East-Side establishments. I'm guessing since its about a mile - mile and a quarter bridge you can get a good jog in (2.5 mi) and get a great view running that second part back to the city!

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PostNov 05, 2007#41

Most people I see, turn around and go back, once they get to the end of the bridge. But, you can also add to your work out by running down the metrolink station stairs, and back up. Or, you can run into the casino, drop a dollar in a slot machine, see if you've won, turn around, and go back.



If you're too tired to do any of that, you can take the metrolink back.

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PostNov 05, 2007#42

^ I can see that. It would be great if there were a seperate return route and somewhere to run on the east riverfront. The arch grounds aren't extensive enough and the gateway mall has way too much traffic (cross streets).

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PostNov 05, 2007#43

Interesting. I see a lot of people doing a Washington Avenue, Eads Bridge, route. It makes sense, but there are so many obstacles in the way.

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PostNov 05, 2007#44

Think about this awesome jogging circle that could have been (or could still be).



1. Start at home on Washington Ave.

2. Jog down past all the stores and past Laclede's Landing on the Eads Bridge.

3. Cross the Mississippi on the Eads.

4. Come down the stairs at the Casino Queen. Stop in throw a dollar in the slots.

5. Run south down along the East Saint Louis Riverfront Park.

6. Stop to pick up a drink from a street vendor in the park.

7. Sit on a bench by the East Saint Louis fountain and gaze out over the river, through the Arch and down the Gateway Mall. And, of course, you glance to your left to check on the progress of the new towers in BPV.

8. After your little rest, you jog on down under the PSB and to the South End of the East Saint Louis Riverfront Park along the new marina. You also wave a friendly hello to the security guard on patrol in the park.

9. At the south end of the riverfront park, you climb the stairs up the MacArthur Bridge up to the upper level old road deck which is now decorated with plantings and a couple of sculptures. As you cross the river, an old coal train rumbles underneath.

10. You get off the MacArthur bridge and enter Chouteau's Landing, where you run past the new artistic shops and diners as you get on 2nd street which takes you to the Arch Grounds.

11. You then run under the arch, gazing back across the river to the fountains in the E. StL Park where you just came from.

12. You arrive back at Washington Ave, where you cool down and walk back up the 6 blocks to your loft.



Total Distance: 5 Miles

Approximate Time: 30 min (run); 40 (min. jog); Hour (walk)




Now that is a jog I could wake up for in the mornings.



Seriously, if East Saint Louis could clean up its riverfront, the only thing we would be lacking is permission to make the upper deck (the old road deck) of the MacArthur Bridge into a pedestrian Bridge. As awesome as this little jog sounds, it is not that far from happening if people were devoted to it.

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PostNov 05, 2007#45

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! This would be awesome. A five-mile loop would be a big attraction for some recreational cyclists as well! The only thing that seems off is the 30 minute five mile run! :shock:



I wish Great Rivers Greenway would make this a priority. With some of their funding and the waterways bill about to pass, this truly isn't too far from happening. The MacArthur Bridge is perfect as it's very close to downtown and future development.

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PostNov 06, 2007#46

Being a person scared of heights, if I were on the same bridge that a train was rumbling over, I'd probably have a heart attack and defeat the entire purpose of running in the first place.

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PostNov 06, 2007#47

That would be a bike ride I would do weekly.

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