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Discussion on the City Rejoining the County

Discussion on the City Rejoining the County

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PostDec 13, 2006#1

From Kurt Odenwald in the Arch City Chronicle


“First, Let’s Get the Terminology Right. Second, Let’s Get Serious About St. Louis City Rejoining the County.”



By Councilman Kurt S. Odenwald and David Stokes, special to the Arch City Chronicle



On a few occasions during his term as Mayor of St. Louis, Mayor Slay has mentioned the idea of St. Louis City and St. Louis County merging. He deserves great credit for bringing the idea forward, although the suggestion has not generated much civic discussion yet, either pro or con. That is unfortunate, because it is time to try again.



However, a prerequisite to any discussion requires a substantive change in terminology. Specifically, we need to replace the word “merger’ with the term “re-entering.” While it may have worked in other places, the idea of the governments of St. Louis County, all 91 municipalities, and St. Louis City suddenly becoming one government is simply not going to happen – at least not without a first step. It will be challenging enough to accomplish the simpler step of having the City re-enter St. Louis County (just as Kansas City is a municipal government within Jackson County), but that important first step is a real possibility, and the positive effects of that initial step are numerous.



From Mayor Slay’s second inaugural address (as reported in the West End Word) it is apparent that he truly meant his words to be “food for thought” as his office has not yet put much research into the effort.



The Mayor stated, “In four years, Charlie [Dooley] and I may share fire engines, airports, a health district, a bond issue, a tax base or even an office. Or we may not.” It would be difficult for the City to share fire engines with the County, as St. Louis County Government has no fire department, and I doubt that Mayor Slay wants to involve the fire districts in this already crowded arena. We’ll leave that aside, as we have no desire to be the naysayers in the back belittling those who have chosen to bring this issue to the forefront. But, there needs to be a fundamental understanding of the respective roles each government currently plays in our region as we consider the possibility of a future where the County line runs from the Missouri to the Mississippi. Importantly, what would be the necessary steps and practical effects of the City re-entering St. Louis County as its 92nd municipality?



The City’s re-entry into St. Louis County would require approval from numerous local boards and legislative bodies, sweeping State legislation addressing the laws made for “Cities not within a County,” and, most importantly, the approval of the voters in both jurisdictions.



As our part in slowly moving this discussion forward, we suggest the following as further “food for thought” as to the practical effects and major challenges that face such a bold step as suggesting that the City of St. Louis become like all other cities in Missouri.



At first glance, it would appear that County residents might pay less in property taxes while City residents will inevitably be faced with the prospect of paying more. Should the City rejoin the County, City residents would be subject to paying County property taxes, which are currently set at 0.558 per $100 of assessed valuation. City residents whose properties have been historically under-assessed will also face the prospect of having a County assessor more realistically apply values to City homes.



Property owners in fashionable neighborhoods like Compton Heights and others that have been significantly under-assessed in past years may be looking at significantly increased property values, and higher property taxes. Considering that the County spends more money per capita on services in the unincorporated areas than in municipalities (no exact breakdown is available, but this fact is clear to anyone familiar with County Government), and all residents of the City would obviously reside within a municipality, the influx of City property with an assessed valuation of $4 Billion into St. Louis County would theoretically provide substantial additional revenues which could permit the County to reduce the current tax rate and still provide the current level of services to “all County residents.”



A key variable will be the costs associated with St. Louis County providing “county services” within its newest municipality. The potential savings to City Government when their County offices are administered by St. Louis County would allow the City to reduce its own municipal property taxes in a manner that would offset a portion of the increase. However, it seems realistic that some type of tax increase for City residents would be inevitable.



The County’s role within St. Louis City would largely be determined by the City itself. The only thing “almost” certain about departmental reorganization would be the County taking over the eight ‘County’ offices currently operated by the City of St. Louis: Recorder of Deeds, Sheriff, Circuit Clerk, Public Administrator, Treasurer, Collector of Revenue, License Collector and Circuit Attorney. We say ‘almost’ because the State would have to be closely involved in redesigning the Circuit Court.



Four of the above positions relate to the Court and, as such, could be kept separate. The 16th Circuit in Jackson County, which is one circuit with two divisions in Kansas City and Independence could serve as an excellent guide on bringing the two judicial circuits together. The Recorder, Collector, License Collector and Treasurer would all be merged into the St. Louis County Department of Revenue and their employees moved out of patronage and into civil service positions. Eliminating the duplication of government will add up to big savings to the City—but at the cost of control over hiring and firing, which, as we all know, is a source of political power.



As for other departments, the City and County would need to have very detailed discussions as to reorganizing the departments. The City, unlike any municipality in St. Louis County, has sufficient population under State Law to operate its own Health Department. Whether St. Louis County assumed those duties would be strictly up to the City. The discussions would vary from department to department, and we believe voters would need to understand the proposed changes, at least at a basic level, before any vote can be considered.



For example, what City parks, if any, would become County, both managed and paid for by County Government? The County would not be required to assume any parks, but a few obvious choices come to mind. While City government would benefit by turning over the annual operational expense of some parks to the County, will it be willing to give up control over what have traditionally (and rightfully so) been considered City parks? Although it is doubtful the City would ever give up control of Forest Park, a major area park like Carondelet could be run by St. Louis County in much the same way Tilles Park in Ladue is a large County park located within a municipality.



What City roads would be incorporated into the County arterial road system? The Forest Park Parkway jumps immediately to mind as a natural selection, as do some other east –west arteries that cross the City- County lines, like Delmar, Chippewa or Morganford. Now lets not get too crazy here—no one is suggesting eliminating the wonderfully confusing manner in which the street names change upon crossing that imaginary “County” line. After all, if Kirkwood Road does not have to be Lindbergh, then Morganford does not have to become Union, and Chippewa should not have to become Watson Road.



Public safety departments would likely change very little as the municipalities in the County generally provide their own police and fire service. Under a re-entry of the City into St. Louis County we believe the Elections Boards would likely merge, as that is a County Office. Of course, the Commissioners are appointed by the Governor, and the operations are directed more from Jefferson City than any local jurisdiction.



The simple fact is that St. Louis County provides limited services to the largest County municipalities (Florissant, Chesterfield, University City) and St. Louis City is larger than any of those by a significant margin. The alternate fact is that what would take place within the City would have no more effect on the daily life of a Ballwin resident than the current goings-on in unincorporated South County or the City of Dellwood do now, which is to say relatively no effect at all.



From a political perspective, the re-entry of the City and its residents to the County would solidify the recent Democratic hold on County government, as City voters would now vote in County elections. However, a slight enlargement of the County Council, perhaps from seven members to nine (or possibly eleven) would allow County Republicans to continue to have a strong voice on the County Council. Increasing the size of the Council to 9 would maintain the approximate present size of the Council districts (each having about 150,000 residents).



The City Board of Alderman and the offices of Mayor, Comptroller and President of the Board of Alderman would not need to be changed at all since they are all municipal positions. However, we would hope City residents would take the opportunity of rejoining the County to streamline the size of the Board of Alderman and elect the President from among the members, instead of citywide, like almost every other major legislative body.



So why would City residents want to re-enter the County if that re-entry would likely result in a tax increase and if they would still rely upon City government for their basic municipal services (police, fire, trash, snow removal…)? To begin with, the basic start of combining of the eight County offices would be a major step forward for good, responsive government for the residents of the City of St. Louis. Moving away from patronage and to a full civil service system will better serve all residents. Taxpayers understand the truth that patronage serves the purposes of political machines, not good government.



While it may sound disjointed to say that adding a layer of government would streamline government, that is exactly what would happen in the long run if the City re-entered St. Louis County and the two entities worked together to better serve all 1.3 million residents of a combined county. Lower property taxes for County residents, fewer government employees with better civil service protections, reduced power of political machines, more intergovernmental cooperation…these are the baseline effects of St. Louis City re-entering St. Louis County. We hope this happens and we look forward to being a part of the debate.

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PostDec 13, 2006#2

There are (at least in my opinion, since I do not have any facts to base this on) too many people in power who stand to lose with this. Ain't happenning.



PLEASE note this is my opinion alone. I hope my pessimmistic attitude is incorrect

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PostDec 13, 2006#3

bsharmastl wrote:There are (at least in my opinion, since I do not have any facts to base this on) too many people in power who stand to lose with this. Ain't happenning.



PLEASE note this is my opinion alone. I hope my pessimmistic attitude is incorrect


No I think you're exactly right. The reason this hasn't already happened, and why it continues to be the issue that no-one will seriously support, is because too many of our mayors, city councilpeople, etc. would rather be the big fish in their small ponds.

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PostDec 13, 2006#4

But Odenwald is just talking about making the city part of the county - that wouldn't really change things too much for the individuals mayors, right? St. Louis City would just be another municipality like Des Peres or Town & Country - albeit by far the largest municipality.

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PostDec 13, 2006#5

Wouldn't that diminish Slay's power or no?

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PostDec 13, 2006#6

DeBaliviere wrote:But Odenwald is just talking about making the city part of the county - that wouldn't really change things too much for the individuals mayors, right? St. Louis City would just be another municipality like Des Peres or Town & Country - albeit by far the largest municipality.


DeBaliviere, I think what everyone-is-afraid-of-but-wont-talk-about is the flood of potential annexations and city mergers that could follow. St. Louis City could, potentially, swallow up many of its present neighbors--threatening all of those little mayors and councilpeople. Of course as long as St. Louis isn't in the same county, it can't do that.

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PostDec 13, 2006#7

I think it would, but this is bigger than diminishing just his powers. We will also be taking away Alderman's powers (more centralized control as opposed to the smaller "city" control they have.



I also believe that there is corruption in the city, which would come under scrutiny, and that would be a deterrent to anything like this.

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PostDec 13, 2006#8

I also believe that there is corruption in the city, which would come under scrutiny, and that would be a deterrent to anything like this.


What are you talking about?

PostDec 13, 2006#9

It would be difficult for the City to share fire engines with the County, as St. Louis County Government has no fire department,


Of course, Mr. O., the City has fire trucks that it could share with the county.



The next couple of years could be interesting. A newly re-elected Charlie Dooley will have the ability to try some of the cooperative things that a cautious campaign manager kept him from doing for the last couple of years.



It doesn't hurt to explore the ideas, does it?

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PostDec 13, 2006#10

After re-entry, the City would fall under the County's Boundary Commission for annexations and mergers. But even if area like Affton was annexed or the City of Clayton merged, school districts would still be unaffected. Hence, in theory (if the City and the area of annexation or merger both vote in favor), it would be possible to someday live both in the City of St. Louis and Clayton School District. But unlike the City of St. Louis, the vast majority of US and Missouri cities do not have coterminous boundaries with school districts.

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PostDec 14, 2006#11

If only the city and dowtown could then become the county seat making us truly the center of the region (and increase foot traffic).......one can dream......

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PostDec 14, 2006#12

The Korea's will merge first.



Hey, we're not talking about East and West Germany here. This is St. Louis. Politicians will never change the power structure just to benefit the region. They need a bigger incentive. Maybe we can declare them blighted and offer them a TIF to actually give up a little power for the benefit of the area.



I think we would have a better chance at changing the Missouri Constitution to create a new city class -- Super City -- that creates a Super Mayor and a board with authority in limited areas, like taxation, airports, and polution control, to do things that benefit the entire region.

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PostDec 14, 2006#13

publiceye wrote:
I also believe that there is corruption in the city, which would come under scrutiny, and that would be a deterrent to anything like this.


What are you talking about?


Nothing concrete really. Here are some examples which make me "believe" (my belief only, which does not mean it's true) that corruption still exists:



Voter fraud 2 elections back, which actually convicted some officials

Conviction of Roads and Plumbing inspectors on mail and wire fraud recently

The whole imbroglio of the school board, Sup and the fight with Mayor's office.

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PostDec 14, 2006#14

Gary Kreie wrote:The Korea's will merge first.



Hey, we're not talking about East and West Germany here. This is St. Louis.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


I think we would have a better chance at changing the Missouri Constitution to create a new city class -- Super City -- that creates a Super Mayor and a board with authority in limited areas, like taxation, airports, and polution control, to do things that benefit the entire region.


I think that's a great idea. Sounds a bit like Louisville's recent merger.



I'd like to see one police force as well- I'm sick of these little hamlets (Bella Villa, Charlack, etc.) and their damn speed traps. :wink:

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PostDec 14, 2006#15

stlmike wrote:Wouldn't that diminish Slay's power or no?


:lol:



Can we take away any more?

PostDec 14, 2006#16

And if it were to happen, Odnwald is right-this is the way it needs to happen/start.



We're not going to make a megalopolis in one swoop. Bring the city into the county. Yes there will be county seats ans sheriffs and deputies that lose their postions. this is where all the bickering will come. I think it is also the easiest set of problems to solve.



Everyone always thinks "then we'll have the city schools."



Well no. They'll still be their own district, getting close to the same amount of money, with the same tax base. Just as much as the Clayton's and Ladues don't lose their money to Rockwood and Fox, the county schools will not suffer some enormous crippling burden.



The first are the ACTUAL problems we'll have to sort out.



The latter is the bigger problem: Convincing the populace that a non-issue is just that.

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PostDec 14, 2006#17

I know this sounds bad but I just saw 'Pay It Forward' the other night and I think this would be a great tool for us. If someone could type up a one page information sheet about the pros/cons of St. Louis joining the county and maybe also contain answers to some typical questions on it, we could all save a copy, print off 10 copies and put them in the mailboxes of our neighbors. Then, perhaps more people could be informed. Oh...and add this forums website at the bottom.

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PostDec 14, 2006#18

denlp02 wrote:...I just saw 'Pay It Forward' the other night...


You have my sympathy. Did someone make you watch it?

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PostDec 14, 2006#19

Nope, there really wasn't anything else on and Kevin Spacey kicks ass. Anyway...

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PostDec 15, 2006#20

Hey CS, have you ever seen that Saturday Night Live skit called 'Debbie Downer'?



That's You.

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PostDec 15, 2006#21

SoulardD wrote:Hey CS, have you ever seen that Saturday Night Live skit called 'Debbie Downer'?



That's You.


No, I haven't. But thanks for the compliment!

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PostDec 15, 2006#22

Whaaa, Whaaan...

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PostDec 16, 2006#23

On a few occasions during his term as Mayor of St. Louis, Mayor Slay has mentioned the idea of St. Louis City and St. Louis County merging. He deserves great credit for bringing the idea forward, although the suggestion has not generated much civic discussion yet, either pro or con. That is unfortunate, because it is time to try again.



However, a prerequisite to any discussion requires a substantive change in terminology. Specifically, we need to replace the word “merger’ with the term “re-entering.”


Ummm, is it just my dirty mind or does this sound bad?



How 'bout we just say that the city will be "penetrating" the county? :D

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PostDec 18, 2006#24

El Penetrado. :shock: :oops:

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PostDec 18, 2006#25

Maybe whoever made the quote (in bold) is trying to pull the wool over someones eyes. Re-entering and merging are two different things. If the city re-enters the county, that means it will be part of St. Louis County again and not that City/County would come under one single government. There'd still be a Clayton, Florrissant, Webster Groves, etc.etc.etc. PLUS St. Louis city.

A merging of the two is what needs to be done. St. Louis County is too dense and there are way too many municipalities for this small dense area. I also don't like the ideas of the county merging into one government or three or four (sans St. Louis city), as was mentioned some time ago.

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