urbanSTL

tbspqr wrote:This would work, but this isn't 1898. When New Yorks 5 boroughs joined they took the name of manhattan, people in bronx, queens felt some resentment. The only way for your plan to work would be to create a similar but different name. e.g. have the big government - 1.5 million City County - be called something other than "the city of st. louis" or even just "st. louis", but then like NYC we create 5 - 9 new wards (similar in power to a municipality) that have NO lines (or very few) in common with current boundaries, but we draw the lines in a much more logical way.

People in St. Louis County tend to call themselves St. Louisans anyway, so I don't think they would have a problem with actually being part of the "City of St. Louis," as long as they don't have to directly associate with the darkies of the original city. I think that St. Charles County residents would erupt into open rebellion if they should become part of the city, though. Other than this, I agree with you.

Heck, I live in Rolla (My parents in West STLcounty) and when I had a job in Massachusetts, I said I was from St. Louis.... But saying "I am from St. Louis” is different than, in some peoples minds, living in "the city of St. Louis.” Semantics - probably --- but is definitely significant to those in St. Louis County.



Most people in St. Charles moved for one reason or another OUT of St. Louis city/county. I think other than the benefits they leach (I leach as well) from the city - like the cultural institutions, entertainment venues, and what not – are the only thing they would openly connect with City/County residents over. **hence not to get off topic but every county in the STL MSA (Rolla openly says it’s on the outskirts of St. Louis and thus should be included in the MSA) should pay for those cultural institutions but that’s another topic**

tbspqr wrote:This would work, but this isn't 1898. When New Yorks 5 boroughs joined they took the name of manhattan, people in bronx, queens felt some resentment. The only way for your plan to work would be to create a similar but different name. e.g. have the big government - 1.5 million City County - be called something other than "the city of st. louis" or even just "st. louis", but then like NYC we create 5 - 9 new wards (similar in power to a municipality) that have NO lines (or very few) in common with current boundaries, but we draw the lines in a much more logical way.

There actually was a proposal, dating back before the city succeeding from the county, to create 4 or 5 "borroughs" around Saint Louis. I did a brief bit of research on it some years ago for my BA. If I recall, the proposed names were: St. Ferdinand (north), Meramec (southwest), and Carondolet (south). I can't remember what the northwest name was.



Sadly, I believe the civil war interrupted any interest in this proposal. Then, as we all know, the small-minded politicians of the 1870s moved to increase their immediate power at the expense of long-term prosperity and unity.

Name calling/flaming is unacceptable in any discussion.

Somebody go tell all those socialists out in the suburbs to give back city dwellers the tax money they were re-distributed for all of those roads!

Actually the City of St. Louis has been on the receiving end of County, State and Federal taxes since the 70's.

I personally think a city council elected from across the current city and county could benefit from a 2 party system.

The City of St. Louis has a two party system, the White Democratic Party and the Black Democratic Party.



The City of St. Louis can unincorparate and become a part of St Louis cxounty if it can't make it on it's own. Just like any other municipality.

The Curmudgeon wrote:Name calling/flaming is unacceptable in any discussion.

Somebody go tell all those socialists out in the suburbs to give back city dwellers the tax money they were re-distributed for all of those roads!

Actually the City of St. Louis has been on the receiving end of County, State and Federal taxes since the 70's.

I personally think a city council elected from across the current city and county could benefit from a 2 party system.

The City of St. Louis has a two party system, the White Democratic Party and the Black Democratic Party.



The City of St. Louis can unincorparate and become a part of St Louis cxounty if it can't make it on it's own. Just like any other municipality.

What name calling/flaming? No one called you a name or flamed you. If you are uncomfortable with people calling you on your misuse of the term socialist, then stop misusing the term.

The Curmudgeon wrote:The City of St. Louis can unincorparate and become a part of St Louis cxounty if it can't make it on it's own. Just like any other municipality.

Actually it's not quite that simple. St. Louis city "divorced" itself from St. Louis county through a statewide election (I believe), and is considered a city independant of any county, like Baltimore and a few places in Virginia. To become part of St. Louis county again would require an election to reverse that process. It's possible, but simply "unincorporating" would not trigger it.

Tysalpha wrote:

The Curmudgeon wrote:The City of St. Louis can unincorparate and become a part of St Louis cxounty if it can't make it on it's own. Just like any other municipality.

Actually it's not quite that simple. St. Louis city "divorced" itself from St. Louis county through a statewide election (I believe), and is considered a city independant of any county, like Baltimore and a few places in Virginia. To become part of St. Louis county again would require an election to reverse that process. It's possible, but simply "unincorporating" would not trigger it.

You are correct Tysalpha. It is actually in the state constitution, so it would not be an easy thing to merge everything back together. However, it can be done. There would be some definite advantages to combining the city and county.



Take Louisville for example. If I remember correctly, they re-combined the city with their county muni's they moved up on the federal chart of cities (from somewhere around 50ish up to around 16) which opened up a whole slew of new federal money for the area. The muni's didn't totally disappear, but I don't remember how the whole city/county government worked it out. Sounded like things are on a real comeback for their downtown area after all the finagling details got worked out and the close-in burbs were doing better as well. If anybody has further information or knows otherwise, please correct me.