This stretch of freeway has always scared me. Look how flimsy it looks here. Now, imagine being there during an earthquake. Freaky. They did earthquake proof it, right?
KMOV.com
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KMOV.com
Where you dont want to be, if St Louis has a Big One
Where you dont want to be, if St Louis has a Big One
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Xing wrote:They did earthquake proof it, right?
I believe they are still doing work on it... they have been for a few years now.
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When you look at that picture it makes you wonder who came up with that design? It just looks... goofy.
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urbanstlouis wrote:Xing wrote:They did earthquake proof it, right?
I believe they are still doing work on it... they have been for a few years now.
Yes, they are retro-fitting the stretch of 64/40 from 14th to the river to withstand a 1-in-500 year quake.
The new stadium has also been "earthquake proofed" to the same standards.
The problem is this is the 1999 building code which is based on outdated US Geological Survey from 1976. Since then the Geological Survey has doubled it's estimates for a New Madrid quake and the 2003 International Building Code specifies building for a 1-in-2500 year quake...
St Louis City has not yet adopted the 2003 International Building Code. St Louis County adopted it in May of 2005.
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MoDOT is still doing seismic retrofits along that entire corridor. Right now they are concentrating on the portion from 4th to 7th St. because of the ballpark and I believe from 16th to 18th. Portions that remain are 20th to 21st and 7th to 14th. I work in a highrise downtown so I'm more concerned about being stuck in there when the 'big one' hits.
I believe IDOT has retrofitted a lot of their portion of the PSB complex except for the Tudor/Piggott ramps. However, I don't believe the PSB itself has any thing in regards to protection.
I believe IDOT has retrofitted a lot of their portion of the PSB complex except for the Tudor/Piggott ramps. However, I don't believe the PSB itself has any thing in regards to protection.
buckethead wrote:
St Louis City has not yet adopted the 2003 International Building Code. St Louis County adopted it in May of 2005.
St. Louis City HAS indeed adopted the IBC.
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Cityboy wrote:buckethead wrote:
St Louis City has not yet adopted the 2003 International Building Code. St Louis County adopted it in May of 2005.
St. Louis City HAS indeed adopted the IBC.
That's good. When was it fully adopted? I know the city adopted the IBC regulations for existing buildings in 2003 but I thought they were still working to adopt the rest of the IBC.
brickandmortar wrote:MoDOT is still doing seismic retrofits along that entire corridor. Right now they are concentrating on the portion from 4th to 7th St. because of the ballpark and I believe from 16th to 18th. Portions that remain are 20th to 21st and 7th to 14th. I work in a highrise downtown so I'm more concerned about being stuck in there when the 'big one' hits.
I believe IDOT has retrofitted a lot of their portion of the PSB complex except for the Tudor/Piggott ramps. However, I don't believe the PSB itself has any thing in regards to protection.
You're correct, they just retrofitted the elevated portion in East St Louis, which scares me as much as that I-64 stretch in STL. I dont think it was enough, however.
I know they made this freeway downtown, as they did, to preserve space, but it almost looks like a waste, after the city chose to demolish so much around it. Thank god, they have plans now.
If there's an earthquake it won't matter where you are in the city, or region for that matter.
I haven't posted in a while, we've been a little busy recovering from Hurricane Wilma down here in FL. She came through after Katrina and Rita so she didn't quite make the news splash that the others did.
If you think the federal and state response (or lack thereof) to Katrina and the NOLA/Gulf Coast disaster was a fluke, you are mistaken.
FEMA has been essentially gutted. The National Guard is for the most part preoccuppied elswhere (Iraq/Afganistan). I seriously doubt the states along the New Madrid Fault have any real disaster preparedness plan.
If you want to know what you need to do to prepare, perform this test:
-Take a weekend
-Park your car. Give your keys to someone who won't give them back until MOnday.
-Turn off the water, the land line phone, the gas, and the electricity to your home.
- Turn off your cellphone. In a natural disaster the system will sustain damage.
-Do not use your ATM/Credit Cards. THe system will be down in a disaster. You will have to use cash or barter for what you need.
-walk everywhere you think you need to go. You may not go anywhere there is power/light/water, etcetera.
Now. Live. Figure out what it is you are going to need to survive for two weeks minimum in those circumstances.
Given the age and type of architecture, and lack of earthquake/disaster planning for STL, you might want to consider sleeping outdoors. In a quake, all those lovely brick buildings will be slag heaps unless the've been retrofitted.
If you think this is a bit dramatic, I can assure you it's not.
-We were without power for two weeks. 98% of the power grid in two counties was taken out by a category 1 storm. THe strongest is category 5.
- We had no running water for 3 days. We flushed our toilet by taking buckets of water from our backyard fountain and pouring them in the toilet. Once water was restored we were told to boil it before cooking/drinking. The boil water order was in effect for ten days.
-There were lines at gas stations to get gas. That is if the station had managed to get an electric generator, and gasoline to start the generators, so they could turn the pumps on.
-Our land line phone worked until they got our power restored, and they cut the phone line in the process.
- The cell phone only partially worked until the battery ran down.
-We did buy a generator for power. And drove 150 miles round trip to initially buy enough gas to run the thing for 4 days. It cost $15.00 a day to have electrical power for 8 hrs.
-We cooked on our gas grill. We heated water for bathing the same way.
-fortunately we had an unusual coldspell after the storm went through, so we didn't need air conditioning. An earthquake won't care if it's 90 above or -10 below. How will you deal with that?
-Our neghborhood is stable socioeconomically, so there were no "unpleasantries". Can you say the same?
-buildings that were supposedly built to the "new" hurricane code (post Andrew) sustained damage. There are high rises in downtown Fort Lauderdale and Miami that the windows completely blew out of, and are still sporting plywood coverings.
- Our home sustained roof damage, and there are no contractors available to even give estimates.
-We live in Florida. From the beginning to the end of Hurricane season we are reminded to be prepared. If one is coming our way, we have warning and opportunity to prepare or get out. Our state actually has advance teams that are fully self contained that go to ground zreo before the event. These teams go into action as soon as the storm has passed. They were not prepared to deal with the aftermath of Wilma. Nor was the Fed. I doubt any state in the midwest is ready to deal with this kind of disaster. Again, there is no warning period for an earthquake.
In short you've got no one but yourselves to rely on, and if you're not prepared no one's coming to save you.
What you saw in NOLA/Gulf Coast could happen to you. And that situation, like ours here in FL, isn't over yet.
I've learned that insurance companies are notifying homeowners along the New Madrid that they will no longer be covered for earthquakes. Check with your agent - get whatever coverage you can. Even if you're just a renter.
Oh, and a bottle of xanax should definitely be part of your plan!
I haven't posted in a while, we've been a little busy recovering from Hurricane Wilma down here in FL. She came through after Katrina and Rita so she didn't quite make the news splash that the others did.
If you think the federal and state response (or lack thereof) to Katrina and the NOLA/Gulf Coast disaster was a fluke, you are mistaken.
FEMA has been essentially gutted. The National Guard is for the most part preoccuppied elswhere (Iraq/Afganistan). I seriously doubt the states along the New Madrid Fault have any real disaster preparedness plan.
If you want to know what you need to do to prepare, perform this test:
-Take a weekend
-Park your car. Give your keys to someone who won't give them back until MOnday.
-Turn off the water, the land line phone, the gas, and the electricity to your home.
- Turn off your cellphone. In a natural disaster the system will sustain damage.
-Do not use your ATM/Credit Cards. THe system will be down in a disaster. You will have to use cash or barter for what you need.
-walk everywhere you think you need to go. You may not go anywhere there is power/light/water, etcetera.
Now. Live. Figure out what it is you are going to need to survive for two weeks minimum in those circumstances.
Given the age and type of architecture, and lack of earthquake/disaster planning for STL, you might want to consider sleeping outdoors. In a quake, all those lovely brick buildings will be slag heaps unless the've been retrofitted.
If you think this is a bit dramatic, I can assure you it's not.
-We were without power for two weeks. 98% of the power grid in two counties was taken out by a category 1 storm. THe strongest is category 5.
- We had no running water for 3 days. We flushed our toilet by taking buckets of water from our backyard fountain and pouring them in the toilet. Once water was restored we were told to boil it before cooking/drinking. The boil water order was in effect for ten days.
-There were lines at gas stations to get gas. That is if the station had managed to get an electric generator, and gasoline to start the generators, so they could turn the pumps on.
-Our land line phone worked until they got our power restored, and they cut the phone line in the process.
- The cell phone only partially worked until the battery ran down.
-We did buy a generator for power. And drove 150 miles round trip to initially buy enough gas to run the thing for 4 days. It cost $15.00 a day to have electrical power for 8 hrs.
-We cooked on our gas grill. We heated water for bathing the same way.
-fortunately we had an unusual coldspell after the storm went through, so we didn't need air conditioning. An earthquake won't care if it's 90 above or -10 below. How will you deal with that?
-Our neghborhood is stable socioeconomically, so there were no "unpleasantries". Can you say the same?
-buildings that were supposedly built to the "new" hurricane code (post Andrew) sustained damage. There are high rises in downtown Fort Lauderdale and Miami that the windows completely blew out of, and are still sporting plywood coverings.
- Our home sustained roof damage, and there are no contractors available to even give estimates.
-We live in Florida. From the beginning to the end of Hurricane season we are reminded to be prepared. If one is coming our way, we have warning and opportunity to prepare or get out. Our state actually has advance teams that are fully self contained that go to ground zreo before the event. These teams go into action as soon as the storm has passed. They were not prepared to deal with the aftermath of Wilma. Nor was the Fed. I doubt any state in the midwest is ready to deal with this kind of disaster. Again, there is no warning period for an earthquake.
In short you've got no one but yourselves to rely on, and if you're not prepared no one's coming to save you.
What you saw in NOLA/Gulf Coast could happen to you. And that situation, like ours here in FL, isn't over yet.
I've learned that insurance companies are notifying homeowners along the New Madrid that they will no longer be covered for earthquakes. Check with your agent - get whatever coverage you can. Even if you're just a renter.
Oh, and a bottle of xanax should definitely be part of your plan!
^Thanks for the post. I was just in FL for Thanksgiving, and also went down to Oakland Park to visit a friend. She was without power for a week, and feels that this experience has changed her forever. Her stories were chilling. I found the devastation to be mind-boggling, especially for a storm as "weak" as Wilma. And the lack of (government) clean-up, even weeks later! Wow. It looked like there hadn't been trash pick-up in all of South Florida since it hit. I lived in Florida for 10 years...my first hurricane was Andrew. I never anticipated it looking as bad as it did. Glad to see you guys came out okay.
I agree, there's really nothing that can be done but attempt to prepare for the worst. You're not safe anywhere.
That said, my worst fear is is being on the PSB during a earthquake.
I agree, there's really nothing that can be done but attempt to prepare for the worst. You're not safe anywhere.
That said, my worst fear is is being on the PSB during a earthquake.
I've driven the PSB I don't know how many times since it opened and I've never even given a thought about an earthquake hitting. I thought I read or heard a few years ago where retrofitting for earthquake started on the double overpass (hwy 40 downtown) and PSB...they're still working on it...?
Also, I was told by a rehabber that those iron stars you see on the sides of all the old buildings are the ends of rods that go through the building, fitted for tornado precausions (due to the 1896 cyclone). I also was told by this same guy that these measures for "tornado proofing" were even more stringent than earthquake damage preventing measures. I'm certainly no expert and I'm not sure if the rehabber was either, so maybe someone out there who knows more about it can affirm or clear things up on this point?
Also, I was told by a rehabber that those iron stars you see on the sides of all the old buildings are the ends of rods that go through the building, fitted for tornado precausions (due to the 1896 cyclone). I also was told by this same guy that these measures for "tornado proofing" were even more stringent than earthquake damage preventing measures. I'm certainly no expert and I'm not sure if the rehabber was either, so maybe someone out there who knows more about it can affirm or clear things up on this point?
Miles - glad you guys are OK. You are making a good point. We can't assume anymore that the gov is going to swoop in and take care of things. I have spent my entire life thinking things were different in the United States. New Orleans has been a real eye opener.
Here in Washington, terrorism is our biggest fear. People go on with their lives, but we have been through some crazy stuff. Most of you have heard of the major attacks and events. But little things and false alarms happen often. We are waiting for the Big One. They come on TV and tell us to buy plastic to cover our windows so poison won't blow in. It is chilling to be on a subway when a group of heavily armed soldiers or police board with search dogs. We have been instructed to "shelter in place". They already know (and this was pre-Katrina), that it won't be possible to evacuate Washington, even if you have a car. As it is,traffic is so terrible, if someone double parks in Arlington, everyone in the Metro area will have an extra hour commute home. You won't be able to flee the city, even with plenty of warning. Everyone I know has radios that are charged with a hand crank. We are supposed to keep lots of water stored away, non perishable food, etc. etc. We are supposed to keep a stash at the office, too. If something happens, you won't be able to run home. Shelter in place, means the office, too. Whenever we get a little false alarm, I run out and hit the ATM to have cash in my pocket.
Miles, you really got me started! I wish the local government in the New Madrid fault area was making a priority of preparation. I wish there was some kind of program to assist people to retrofit their houses, especially low-income and middle income people who cannot afford to do so. It would be cheaper to retrofit now than completely rebuild the region and lives later. It is easy for people to ignore. Who knows, it may not happen for 500 years. The mindset is different when it may not happen in your lifetime as opposed to Florida hurricanes, which are expected every year. To be honest, I don't think about New Madrid much. I guess when something hasn't effected you for your entire life and there is no evidence it will happen in your lifetime, it is hard to make it a priority.
Now after all this alarmist talk, I don't really know what to expect. Do they expect every house to collaspe, or will it actually only be the loss of chimneys, etc. Where is the expected ground zero, won't it be around the bootheel?
Here in Washington, terrorism is our biggest fear. People go on with their lives, but we have been through some crazy stuff. Most of you have heard of the major attacks and events. But little things and false alarms happen often. We are waiting for the Big One. They come on TV and tell us to buy plastic to cover our windows so poison won't blow in. It is chilling to be on a subway when a group of heavily armed soldiers or police board with search dogs. We have been instructed to "shelter in place". They already know (and this was pre-Katrina), that it won't be possible to evacuate Washington, even if you have a car. As it is,traffic is so terrible, if someone double parks in Arlington, everyone in the Metro area will have an extra hour commute home. You won't be able to flee the city, even with plenty of warning. Everyone I know has radios that are charged with a hand crank. We are supposed to keep lots of water stored away, non perishable food, etc. etc. We are supposed to keep a stash at the office, too. If something happens, you won't be able to run home. Shelter in place, means the office, too. Whenever we get a little false alarm, I run out and hit the ATM to have cash in my pocket.
Miles, you really got me started! I wish the local government in the New Madrid fault area was making a priority of preparation. I wish there was some kind of program to assist people to retrofit their houses, especially low-income and middle income people who cannot afford to do so. It would be cheaper to retrofit now than completely rebuild the region and lives later. It is easy for people to ignore. Who knows, it may not happen for 500 years. The mindset is different when it may not happen in your lifetime as opposed to Florida hurricanes, which are expected every year. To be honest, I don't think about New Madrid much. I guess when something hasn't effected you for your entire life and there is no evidence it will happen in your lifetime, it is hard to make it a priority.
Now after all this alarmist talk, I don't really know what to expect. Do they expect every house to collaspe, or will it actually only be the loss of chimneys, etc. Where is the expected ground zero, won't it be around the bootheel?
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Marmar wrote:Also, I was told by a rehabber that those iron stars you see on the sides of all the old buildings are the ends of rods that go through the building, fitted for tornado precausions (due to the 1896 cyclone). I also was told by this same guy that these measures for "tornado proofing" were even more stringent than earthquake damage preventing measures. I'm certainly no expert and I'm not sure if the rehabber was either, so maybe someone out there who knows more about it can affirm or clear things up on this point?
From my understanding, the stars and other various ornamental iron details on the outside of homes are threaded onto a long iron tie-rod, which runs through the building as you said, but not for tornado precausions. These were mainly used to keep the building?s wall from spreading. They are found all over the country.
Here is a short thread about them:
http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=576
If we're really worried about I-64/40, I'll help out and blow the thing up myself. I hate that highway. And they're about to pump in another truckload of cash into making it better. I'd rather they blow it up.
I kind of dig the over/under aspect of 40 starting at Grand and heading East. It takes up less space doing less damage to the surrounding area and it's great during heavy weather to give your wipers a break. It'll need to be retrofitted once the flying cars start in the year 2000 though.
trent wrote:I hate that highway.
Well speaking of things you do like. What is your favorite color? Sorry I couldn't help myself when I saw your avator.
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It wouldn't be that bad. The view would be nice on the way out. Worse place to go than at the feet of Busch3...
Well, a small earthquake of 3 or 4 on the richter scale was just reported a few months ago about 6 miles from dowtown...
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^ yes but that quake wasn't even really feelable, we don't have to worry until we hit the 6+ range I think.
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matguy70 wrote:Well, a small earthquake of 3 or 4 on the richter scale was just reported a few months ago about 6 miles from dowtown...
Yes, I think you are referring to the late-November earthquake that was reported as a magnitude 2.5 earthquake. The epicenter was one mile west of Washington Park, IL and ruptured 8 miles below the earth?s surface.
james wrote:trent wrote:I hate that highway.
Well speaking of things you do like. What is your favorite color? Sorry I couldn't help myself when I saw your avator.
That was the guardian of the gate, my avatar is Tim, the Magician.
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Ya St. Louis would not be safe if a large earthquake hit it. With all of the brick buildings, alot of old towns would soon become like Beloxi,Mississippi.
trent wrote:james wrote:trent wrote:I hate that highway.
Well speaking of things you do like. What is your favorite color? Sorry I couldn't help myself when I saw your avator.
That was the guardian of the gate, my avatar is Tim, the Magician.
Oh... in that case. "That is not an ordinary rabbit ... 'tis the most foul cruel and bad-tempered thing you ever set eyes on."