Wagoner Place Historic District

Alex Ihnen · Jun 02, 2009#312009-06-02T00:52+00:00

MattnSTL wrote:The most interesting thing that happened was when Doug and I were talking to Harold Crumpton about redevelopment. He commented that there was a lot of public money floating around that they would like to try to capture to rebuild the community, but he hopes Paul McKee doesn't take it all for himself.

BTW, E.M. Harris has already completed initial stabilization work on the buildings, so they will hopefully get in no worse condition. Neighbors told us that even ten years ago the street was full of life. Then everyone just left.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but saying that there's "a lot of public money floating around" doesn't mean much of anything unless a) it's true, and b) you have a plan to get it, and c) you have a plan to use it. And the census data shows that "everyone just left" more than 10 years ago.

MattnSTL · Jun 02, 2009#322009-06-02T01:55+00:00

They do have plans, but that's not quite the point that he was trying to make. It was more of pay attention to all of us that are actually getting projects done working in and with the community. Don't just throw everything at one plan.

You got census data for those specific two blocks? I didn't think that was easily available on the internets.

Alex Ihnen · Jun 02, 2009#332009-06-02T02:14+00:00

I'm looking at Census tracts 1113 and 1114 - roughly MLK/Taylor/St. Louis/Prairie.

MattnSTL · Jun 02, 2009#342009-06-02T02:44+00:00

Two blocks is far more specific than tracts. But it doesn't really matter because you're looking at it far too seriously for what I said. The residents we talked to did not mean that everyone lived there still and it was a great and thriving community up to ten, twenty, whatever years ago. They meant that in that particular block, the serious decline that is seen today didn't start until fairly recently in the grand scheme of things. Buildings were occupied, albeit in poor condition for occupancy. I think we are all smart enough to know that the decline of north St. Louis and the city in general was a long and painful process.

Alex Ihnen · Jun 02, 2009#352009-06-02T02:54+00:00

True - sorry, didn't mean to kill your comment/observation. We should all recognize that there's much more to retain/save in North St. Louis that most recognize. While the broad swath of decline is generally known, those who have stayed should be supported and built around and not over.

debaliviere · Jun 02, 2009#362009-06-02T12:59+00:00

MattnSTL wrote:BTW, E.M. Harris has already completed initial stabilization work on the buildings, so they will hopefully get in no worse condition.

E.M. Harris is the contractor for Crown Square too, right?

doug · Jun 02, 2009#372009-06-02T21:39+00:00

Grover wrote:
I'm not trying to be a d*ck, but saying that there's "a lot of public money floating around" doesn't mean much of anything unless a) it's true, and b) you have a plan to get it, and c) you have a plan to use it. And the census data shows that "everyone just left" more than 10 years ago.

It's a reference to the fact that Paul McKee got his own tax credit, upcoming TIF, and I would add media attention. This effort should be on the front page of every news paper, along with Crown Village and ONSL.

They were talking about this street. Regardless, the area has seen steady population decline since the passage of the Fair Housing Act in 1968.

Grover wrote:
We should all recognize that there's much more to retain/save in North St. Louis that most recognize. While the broad swath of decline is generally known, those who have stayed should be supported and built around and not over.

Ironic. Yes there is. This is something McKee and his supporters fail to recognize. Moreover, research is currently underway on a historic district along the western edge of MLK. This is something McKee should have and would have funded for St. Louis Avenue, in St. Louis Place, if he cared.

DeBaliviere wrote:E.M. Harris is the contractor for Crown Square too, right?

Yes and they were very enthusiastic about this project!

Alex Ihnen · Jun 03, 2009#382009-06-03T00:34+00:00

Doug wrote:It's a reference to the fact that Paul McKee got his own tax credit, upcoming TIF, and I would add media attention. This effort should be on the front page of every news paper, along with Crown Village and ONSL.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Restoration St. Louis completed more rehab in FPSE than has been done in ONSL? Maybe they should be on the front page? And they haven't done it with public money (unless you count tax abatements granted to previously vacant buildings).

Doug wrote:Ironic. Yes there is. This is something McKee and his supporters fail to recognize. Moreover, research is currently underway on a historic district along the western edge of MLK. This is something McKee should have and would have funded for St. Louis Avenue, in St. Louis Place, if he cared.

Wait! I must have inadvertently disagreed with my idol and life mentor Paul McKee!

bsever · Jun 03, 2009#392009-06-03T02:14+00:00

Grover wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Restoration St. Louis completed more rehab in FPSE than has been done in ONSL? Maybe they should be on the front page? And they haven't done it with public money (unless you count tax abatements granted to previously vacant buildings).

Ok, you're wrong.

Alex Ihnen · Jun 03, 2009#402009-06-03T03:49+00:00

^ Please provide number of buildings/dollars invested. You could be right, but I don't think so. I've clearly spent more time in FPSE than ONSL, but I've been up there half a dozen times . . . the only numbers I could find for ONSL were 27 buildings and $35M. I'll check, but I believe that Restoration St. Louis owns 80+ buildings/lots in FPSE and has invested close to $70M. I know there's been more done in ONSL than just the ONSL Restoration Group, but of course there's a lot more going on in FPSE than just Restoration St. Louis.

Wagoner Place Historic District

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