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PostFeb 28, 2007#61

This is a beautiful building!



I reminise of the club-going days along Washington - before it was called "Wash Ave." Deep Blue, Galaxy, Lo, Monkey Bar and all the drinks and drugs (!). I never thought this area would be so expensive and trendy. I like "Wash Ave" and I can't wait to see more new buildings in StL.



Also, I can't find the phone number and address for the Developer. I find it odd that it's not posted. Are they legit?



Anyway, a sweet building in a sweet area.



:)
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PostFeb 28, 2007#62

rustedhinge wrote:This is a beautiful building!

Also, I can't find the phone number and address for the Developer. I find it odd that it's not posted. Are they legit?

:)


I asked the same thing. They have worked on some large apt/condo projects in Chicago, but no highrises. Anyone else find that strange.



Metropolitan Development Enterprises

http://www.metropolitan-us.com/index.html
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PostFeb 28, 2007#63

DeBaliviere wrote:
Grover wrote:All that AND a dog run! Now everyone should be happy


Everyone but migueltejada. He hates dogs.


Quite the contrary - I love dogs. I hate dog parks.
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PostFeb 28, 2007#64

bpe235 wrote:
I asked the same thing. They have worked on some large apt/condo projects in Chicago, but no highrises. Anyone else find that strange.



Metropolitan Development Enterprises

http://www.metropolitan-us.com/index.html
^Dude, I don't know whether or not they have built a tower or not, but you cannot always tell all of the projects a firm has done by looking at its website.



Also, THF Realty had no high-rises until they built The Plaza in Clayton. Conrad Properties had no high-rises until the built Clayton on the Park. Firms grow. Would it be an insult if St. Louis happened to be the first city Metropolitan Development developed a high-rise? Would that be so bad?



Ask yourselves, why would they go through the effort to develop a website, ask for TIF assistance, and purchase land if their intentions were not good? Yes, there are sleazeball developers, but sleazeballs usually don't go through this much trouble.
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PostMar 01, 2007#65

^DUDE!



good points with Conrad and THF.



I concur!
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PostMar 01, 2007#66

^Dudes, sometimes "developers" will develop nothing but a pretty rendering and a "concept" for what could be built on a desirable chunk of land, hoping to then sell-out to somebody else who can actually build the darn thing. I'm not saying that's what these guys are up to, just that that's what some developers do.
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PostMar 01, 2007#67

Dudes,



It's hard to doubt them 'right off the bat', especially when they have completed some nice projects and have a nice website, although none were highrises. Nevertheless, speculation is a good way to make money, and that's what they are here for; so everbody needs to keep pressing them.
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PostMar 01, 2007#68

This has been said before, but it reminds me of Seattle or Vancouver type condo towers, just half the size. Maybe someday we'll have 50 story condo towers too. For now, Im happy to see this. :D
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PostMar 01, 2007#69

I agree with what bpe said earlier. February in Saint Louis started off with plenty of bad news, so it's nice to end the month on a positive note with an unexpected and surprisingly good development proposal!



I love the building, and the location cannot be beat. For those skeptical of downtown's renaissance, I'd like to think that new construction will force them to revisit their perception of our downtown. Of course, it's one of several proposed new developments in downtown (Ballpark Village, the Roberts Bros. tower, new construction at Park Pacific, etc.).



I don't blame those that are still skeptical since none of these projects has made it past the drawing boards so far. In the meantime, however, I'll hope for the best because this looks like the right time and right location for this type of construction!
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PostMar 01, 2007#70

Framer wrote:^Dudes, sometimes "developers" will develop nothing but a pretty rendering and a "concept" for what could be built on a desirable chunk of land, hoping to then sell-out to somebody else who can actually build the darn thing. I'm not saying that's what these guys are up to, just that that's what some developers do.


And the guys teaming up on this project are local development group RileyWaldrop LLC. Riley Waldrop consists of developer Ben Riley; his father, Philip Riley; and Brad Waldrop. Aren't these guys the same guys who were mentored by Sam Glasser who has made millions in selling out to others who actually develop the buildings after aqcuisition? This is a cool looking building and I would love to see it get done....But Framer does have a point.
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PostMar 01, 2007#71

But in selling out, the buildings still get built. So I don't get the point.
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PostMar 01, 2007#72

MattnSTL wrote:But in selling out, the buildings still get built. So I don't get the point.


Meaning they own the property, can demonstrate the value and then sell the property for a value. They have done this several times already I believe, which is great for them as they are making money without ever really having to get their hands dirty. I'm not saying that this is what is happening here, just backing Framer's sentiment. I obviously do not know the complete history of The Riley Group but seem to remember that the two kids are very young, kind of got their feet wet with some units at Knickerbocker and this project just seems quite ambitious.



I honestly hope they get it done, put up a great building and make a ton of money.
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PostMar 01, 2007#73

According to their website, these developers have built mid-rise developments. Even at 22 stories, I'd still go Skyhouse a mid-rise, but I know that's tall for St. Louis. Then again, I'd call these developers' "mid-rise" projects in Chicago low-rise. IOW, it's all relative.
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PostMar 01, 2007#74

Framer wrote:^Dudes, sometimes "developers" will develop nothing but a pretty rendering and a "concept" for what could be built on a desirable chunk of land, hoping to then sell-out to somebody else who can actually build the darn thing. I'm not saying that's what these guys are up to, just that that's what some developers do.
Yes, this is true and I believe this actually happened with Park East Tower. The Park East proposal actually started off with Chicago-based Baker Development, but was eventually developed by Opus. And Baker has developed highrises. As long as the project moves forward, in the end it doesn't matter who builds it.



Still, and I know I express reservations about this a lot, I will never understand St. Louis Skepticism. It hasn't even been a full week since this project was announced, but already there are naysayers and skeptics. :roll:



I am reminded of the skeptics and naysayers who didn't think downtown - particularly Washington Avenue - could be saved and revitalized. What are they saying now?



In regards to the issue about about Park-Pacific, Roberts Tower etc. not making it past the drawing boards yet - even in places like Atlanta and Houston, where it is booming with new residential construction, it takes two - sometimes three - years from planning to actually see a project go up. I personally think the naysayers and skeptics are people who haven't followed major/new development closely much. The Roberts proposal, which is undergoing its second modification, is one of the oldest proposals; but I believe this project will happen. If it and others don't happen, the world won't stop turning.



In regards to the Rileys, youth is not always a handicap. Some young people have shown adults how take care of business.

PostMar 01, 2007#75

Source


"The local foursome -- Riley and his father, Philip Riley; Ben Muchoki; and Brad Waldrop -- are active in the downtown loft-conversion market. Waldrop transformed an old school and church at 2401 S. 12th Street into 14 condos called the Barton Street Lofts.



The foursome also bought six of the Knickerbocker units at Washington Avenue and 13th Street. One of the investors moved into one of the lofts, and they resold three of the lofts unfinished, custom-built one and are currently converting the sixth.



The local investment group, which called itself Dragon Development for the Locust Street building purchase and sale, is now operating as RileyWaldrop LLC, Ben Riley said. But it does have more plans to buy and develop downtown real estate, especially now that the group has secured the capital from the sale of the Dragon Trading building.



"We believe in downtown," Riley said. "The momentum is picking up, because people, who didn't believe it could happen before, now have to believe it."


Can we give them the benefit of the doubt?



Here's their website:



RileyWaldrop
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PostMar 01, 2007#76

The birds will have a lovely view of the handsome upper portion of this building. The base, like the Park East, is horrible.



The Biz Journal article mentioned 166 units and "several hundred parking spaces." That is way too much parking even if you count for support staff and retail. Part of the reason Portland has been so successful is their parking managment strategy --- to limit the amount of parking a developer can build. We need pedestrians, not parking.



They need to reduce the parking down to 175 spaces at most with some or all of that being below grade. The proposed tower at Euclid & Lindell had similar issues and the redesigns have greatly improved the overall relationship with the street.



We need good zoning, parking management and visioning in this city. Yes, a new tower is welcomed downtown but we really must get a handle on these horrible bases right at the sidewalk where it counts.
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PostMar 01, 2007#77

Arch City wrote:Source


"The local foursome -- Riley and his father, Philip Riley; Ben Muchoki; and Brad Waldrop -- are active in the downtown loft-conversion market. Waldrop transformed an old school and church at 2401 S. 12th Street into 14 condos called the Barton Street Lofts.



The foursome also bought six of the Knickerbocker units at Washington Avenue and 13th Street. One of the investors moved into one of the lofts, and they resold three of the lofts unfinished, custom-built one and are currently converting the sixth.



The local investment group, which called itself Dragon Development for the Locust Street building purchase and sale, is now operating as RileyWaldrop LLC, Ben Riley said. But it does have more plans to buy and develop downtown real estate, especially now that the group has secured the capital from the sale of the Dragon Trading building.



"We believe in downtown," Riley said. "The momentum is picking up, because people, who didn't believe it could happen before, now have to believe it."


Can we give them the benefit of the doubt?



Here's their website:



RileyWaldrop


Listen, not trying to slam these guys as I have stated that I really hope they succeed in bringing this project to market. But let's be for real. Converting a small building in Soulard, fixing up a few exisitng spaces at knickerbocker and buying and selling a building on Locust is a far cry from developing a 22-story new constrcution project in downtown St. Louis. The positives are that they have now seemed to align themselves with a seasoned builder and are poised to really start to make a splash in the development world. I hope they rock it out.
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PostMar 01, 2007#78

I don't know. I don't think the base looks that bad. Maybe a bit flat, but not horrible.



The real value in reduced parking would be increased residential units in the building and of course, taking some of that parking and dumping it into a transit fund to help fund the construction of the downtown loop and either the north or southside lines.
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PostMar 01, 2007#79

irocktheparty2000 wrote:
Arch City wrote:Source


"The local foursome -- Riley and his father, Philip Riley; Ben Muchoki; and Brad Waldrop -- are active in the downtown loft-conversion market. Waldrop transformed an old school and church at 2401 S. 12th Street into 14 condos called the Barton Street Lofts.



The foursome also bought six of the Knickerbocker units at Washington Avenue and 13th Street. One of the investors moved into one of the lofts, and they resold three of the lofts unfinished, custom-built one and are currently converting the sixth.



The local investment group, which called itself Dragon Development for the Locust Street building purchase and sale, is now operating as RileyWaldrop LLC, Ben Riley said. But it does have more plans to buy and develop downtown real estate, especially now that the group has secured the capital from the sale of the Dragon Trading building.



"We believe in downtown," Riley said. "The momentum is picking up, because people, who didn't believe it could happen before, now have to believe it."


Can we give them the benefit of the doubt?



Here's their website:



RileyWaldrop


Listen, not trying to slam these guys as I have stated that I really hope they succeed in bringing this project to market. But let's be for real. Converting a small building in Soulard, fixing up a few exisitng spaces at knickerbocker and buying and selling a building on Locust is a far cry from developing a 22-story new constrcution project in downtown St. Louis. The positives are that they have now seemed to align themselves with a seasoned builder and are poised to really start to make a splash in the development world. I hope they rock it out.


Do you hope they rock the party 2000?
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PostMar 01, 2007#80

175 spaces?

If I was the developer I would refuse to build it with that limit. Holy geeze 1 spot for every unit and 9 spots for retail and staff. What about guests, consumers etc. If I moved in Skyhouse, I surely would walk or bike everywhere, but i'd still want two researved parking spots, but that's just me. If i'm spending 400k I don't want to worry about me or my wife having to park elsewhere.

The fact is, there is no dt loop and I don't see limiting parking to that extent without another viable option.



as for the base, it doesn't bother me.
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PostMar 01, 2007#81

The point is not that the base looks bad, but that it presents a massive wall to the pedestrian on the sidewalk. Look at the pictures, the base is taller than the nearby buildings which have active spaces above the first floor.



Vancouver addresses this issue by having retail or townhouses at the base of high rise towers. Parking is reduced and set toward the back of the site.



Yes, 175 spaces! And they should be "unbundled" from the units ---- require folks to buy the spaces and pay full retail for the cost to park their car. We'll never have the public support to fund a good downtown loop and other transit as long as we don't pay the price for parking and everywhere we go has more than ample spaces.



Many places downtown have only one space. Buyers that have a second car can have a lift if they wish. What we need to think about is a shared garage in the area ---- on some of the existing vacant land. Developers can make payments in lieu of spaces to a fund which will build a garage --- think of the one on Delmar across from the Tivoli but taller. We might even be able to put it off Washington on a side street.



The idea is guests and shoppers would use a shared garage so that we avoid every new building having extra spaces for retail use.
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PostMar 01, 2007#82

irocktheparty2000 wrote:
Listen, not trying to slam these guys as I have stated that I really hope they succeed in bringing this project to market. But let's be for real. Converting a small building in Soulard, fixing up a few exisitng spaces at knickerbocker and buying and selling a building on Locust is a far cry from developing a 22-story new constrcution project in downtown St. Louis. The positives are that they have now seemed to align themselves with a seasoned builder and are poised to really start to make a splash in the development world. I hope they rock it out.
And your concern was what again?
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PostMar 01, 2007#83

Urban Review St. Louis wrote:What we need to think about is a shared garage in the area ---- on some of the existing vacant land.


There's a cool new garage in OPO Square! :P
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PostMar 01, 2007#84

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
Urban Review St. Louis wrote:What we need to think about is a shared garage in the area ---- on some of the existing vacant land.


There's a cool new garage in OPO Square! :P


Ug, yes. I was thinking of something around 18th or so to serve the emerging downtown west area.
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PostMar 01, 2007#85

Arch City wrote:
irocktheparty2000 wrote:
Listen, not trying to slam these guys as I have stated that I really hope they succeed in bringing this project to market. But let's be for real. Converting a small building in Soulard, fixing up a few exisitng spaces at knickerbocker and buying and selling a building on Locust is a far cry from developing a 22-story new constrcution project in downtown St. Louis. The positives are that they have now seemed to align themselves with a seasoned builder and are poised to really start to make a splash in the development world. I hope they rock it out.
And your concern was what again?


If you can't figure it out, i can't help ya.
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